The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

How Time Flies

Home Forums Horse Racing How Time Flies

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 25 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1646338
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4009

    On Thursday afternoon at Salisbury, my current horse, Eagle Court, will be running in the 4:20, a 12F handicap.

    Which will be almost exactly 42 years after my first runner at Salisbury (May 7th, 1981), as detailed on the racecard I kept in a scrapbook. It’s an interesting piece of social history now, an indicator of how much racing has changed over time.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rXJONTauaVd8RzDgeh1m1d9V8DXbNAhT/view?usp=sharing

    Probably the biggest change is obvious when you look at the details of the owners of those 15 horses. Twelve owned by a single individual, three by two individuals. No partnerships, no syndicates, no companies, no racing clubs and no overseas owners, with the exception of Mr Paul Mellon.

    Then look at the weight range, which allowed a horse as moderate as the one I owned then to scrape in on 7-7 against horses that he would never compete against nowadays, as he’d be running in class 6 contests, and the top weights here would be in class 3. Even here, Rising Fast was actually 3lbs wrong in the weights, with 7-4 in the long handicap.

    A month after this race, he won on consecutive Saturdays at Warwick and Bath, carrying 8-0 at Warwick and 7-10 including a penalty at Bath. The rise for those wins was enough to get him a run in the Goodwood Stakes and the Cesarewitch, both races beyond the wildest dreams of low rated horses now. To put that in context, at the end of the season, Timeform rated Rising Fast on 60. What chance you could get a 60 rated horse into a race anywhere on a Grade 1 track!

    I’ve still never had a winner at Salisbury – three horses I was involved with have finished second and the names may be familiar to long standing regulars on here. Democracy was beaten a neck in an amateur riders handicap, Greenwood was beaten 1/2L in a 6F handicap and Salute was beaten a neck in a 12F handicap, all those in the first decade of this century. So I’m hoping that Salisbury owes me one.

    #1646348
    Avatar photoIanDavies
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 12996

    Buried, as I perpetually am, in personal nostalgia, I really enjoyed reading that.

    Salisbury is a wonderful, under-rated, racecourse in my opinion.

    Alan will know this already, but it all started over 5f in May 1970 for Mill Reef there (pity the punters who bet the long odds-on the fav), they used to have 1,000 and 2,000 Guineas trials and in a different race Marquee Universal got Steve Cauthen off to a flier on these shores.

    The 1m6f start remains a quirky favourite of mine and it’s a track I never tire of visiting.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
    It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"

    #1646350
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34736

    “Democracy was beaten a neck in an amateur riders handicap”

    Gets revenge at Royal Ascot this year

    Do you name the horses you own AP?
    and what’s the thought process in doing so

    Time does indeed fly.. 1980 A legend was born. :rose:

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1646354
    Avatar photoCork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 11858

    Deleted – wrong thread.

    #1646356
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4009

    Nathan,

    No, I’ve never bought an unraced horse, other than a small share in a 2-y-old back in the mid 80’s. Apart from that, it’s always been horses with existing form and once they’re in the form book, you can’t change the name.

    I’d noticed that Coolmore have a Democracy that’s already won a 2yo race this year. And rather oddly, in the same week a Greenwood won in France.

    The horse mentioned above, Rising Fast, also had a famous name, as there was a NZ bred one by that name who scored in two Melbourne Cups in the 1950’s.

    #1646357
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34736

    Thanks AP.. Can I ask another question, if you don’t mind.??

    Is it a horse from the yard already for sale? or is it a scouting mission?

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1646359
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34736

    We need an AP question and answer session.. :yes:

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1646368
    Avatar photoSteeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6337

    Fascinating stuff, Alan. You must have some collection of mementoes. One of the runners in that race Down To Darkie, almost certainly innocently named, would never get through Weatherbys now.

    Ian, I was in the bookies that day. A bunch of us keen to hear how far the 2/9 chance (I think that was the price) Fireside Chat would win by, only to be sent hurrying to the Sporting Chronicle to find out more about this upstart Mill Reef.

    #1646369
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4009

    The majority have come from one of the various Horses In Training sales that are held at Tattersalls in Newmarket, Goffs in Doncaster and for the cheaper end of the market, at Ascot. Few visitors to Ascot would know that there’s a sale ring down the hill beside the racecourse stables.

    But I’ve also used claiming races – my last winner, Love Dreams was bought for £12k from a claiming race at Chelmsford, after the trainer and I had spent two days at Newmarket failing to buy horses at up to double that price. Greenwood mentioned above was a decent sprinter bought from a Sandown claimer for £15k, although in that case we checked with the owner (Jeff Smith) that he was happy to let the horse go.

    I spend quite a bit of my free time ploughing through sales catalogs looking for horses that might be of interest – and not just for me, but also for other people who ask me to provide them with a shortlist.

    The current horse came from an online sale, which means the horse never leaves his home stable, but the seller pays a fee to Tattersalls, who produce an online catalog including pictures and video of the horses and manage the sale. All the bidding is done online and if your bid is successful, you go and collect the horse from the seller. This is a fairly new idea, but it’s becoming increasingly popular, as it saves the seller from having the transport the horse to Newmarket or Doncaster, with staff to look after it and display it to potential buyers. And the buyers also no longer have to spend a whole day away just to buy one horse.

    One thing I’ve never done is use a bloodstock agent to buy on my behalf. One of the most mystifing sights in racing is an owner standing next to an agent at a sale and letting the agent do the bidding on his behalf. Which costs hom an extra 5% commission on the sale price on top of that charged by the auction company. I could write several pages about corrupt deals involving agents that I’ve been aware of, but I don’t want Cormack to have lawyers at his door!

    #1646379
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34736

    Thanks for the detailed reply AP, great post

    Do you go through pedigrees, how the horse looks and walks/gallops, previous runs/form, something else or all of it.
    I suppose the price dictates too

    fascinating subject

    just need to win the Euro Millions and I’ll be joining you at the sales.. I’ll be the one without the bloodstock agent.

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1646394
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4009

    Price is the number one consideration – everybody has a budget and there’s no point looking at horses rated in the 90’s if your price limit is £20k. After that I’m looking for a horse that I think could benefit from a move (current trainer out of form, going from big yard to small one, thus more individual attention), or a horse that I feel is being raced at the wrong trip.

    Mainly I check the form and watch films, but I also do a search on the stewards reports page of the BHA site to find out if the horse has a history of reported problems when racing. Pedigree isn’t really a factor when buying horses with form in the book, though I might look to see what else the dam has produced. One thing I do generally avoid is first foals, that are often weak individuals that can’t cope with regular racing.

    Then if the horse is for me, my trainer and his wife would inspect the horse at the sales, talk to the existing trainer if possible, then we’d sit down and agree a maximum price beyond which we wouldn’t bid. Some trainers are very helpful, some are not to be trusted and you learn who fits into which category. I liked a horse at a Nmkt sale, but when we spoke to the trainer, he told us it had two speeds on the gallops – zero mph and 100 mph. It sold for £13k to a NH trainer, who eventually gave up trying to get it to settle after it went 30L clear in a 2M novice handicap hurdle and stopped to zero mph after a mile.

    My favourite sales moment was asking to look at a horse and the girl in charge had a clipboard and asked if she could make a note of my name for her boss. I told her Alan Potts and her face lit up ‘Oh, so nice to put a face to that name’ she said. It took me a few seconds to realise that she assumed I was the ‘Sizing’ man, so I politely pointed out that he’d been dead for 18 months and I just happened to have the same name. The smile disappeared and she crossed out what she’d written!

    #1646443
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34736

    Thank you once again AP.. :good:

    The girl with the clipboard was probably crossing out a few digits at the end of the price she had lined up for the ‘Sizing’ man

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1646509
    Avatar photoMoyenneCorniche
    Participant
    • Total Posts 253

    Winner winner, chicken dinner!

    Congrats on ending your Salisbury curse apracing and what a way to do it.

    18/1 as well so hope you backed it, I wish I had!

    #1646510
    Avatar photoNathan Hughes
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34736

    Great result AP
    Delighted for you..🐎

    Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

    #1646514
    Avatar photoBen_Bernanke
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2371

    Congrats ap! Gutted I missed this thread until just now, you must be over the moon though, hope you had some well earned cash on!!

    #1646516
    Avatar photoIanDavies
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 12996

    BSP was 27 (25.48/1 after 2% commission).

    If a gamble was landed, I’d say it was a fairly discreet one.

    In any event, the quotes from Alan in the RP results analysis are pure gold IMO, not least because they mirrored much of what Alan said here around the time of that well-funded for its level Bath fixture.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
    https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
    https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
    It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"

    #1646528
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4009

    Thanks for your comments. It was a great day as our small stable had a double on the card, winning with both runners. Top class ride by Kevin Stott, who listened to what we told him and rode accordingly. I didn’t have a bet and it’s very rare that I would back one of my own horses, as you simply can’t hope to be objective about them. I’m happy to let them run for the prize money.

    Given the way he won today, you won’t be surprised to learn we plan to run over further next time.

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 25 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.