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How do we know horse is actual horse and not switched?

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  • #24271
    xtradj
    Member
    • Total Posts 2

    When a horse goes to a racetrack how do we know that it is infact the righty horse. Ie are they marked and checked by stewards?

    What I mean is say you had horse a and horse b. a is a group horse and b is a selling horse. But you enter b into a seller but send horse a instead. Both horses look similar. But obv horse a is going to win as its better than selling grade.

    Help needed

    #442989
    % MAN
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5104

    Every horse is checked against their passport at the racecourse and the system does seem to work as a couple of times a year a horse is identified as not being the horse in question – usually when a trainer is sending horses to two meetings and they somehow end up in the wrong horse.

    #442990
    Avatar photoyeats
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    • Total Posts 3442

    Sometimes an owner may have 3 or 4 runners in a race, differentiated only by the colour of the cap (sometimes not published in the Racing Post)

    What would happen in a level weights race if two of them had the wrong number cloth on and came out of the wrong stalls but one of them won with the correct jockey on? The commentator may be unaware (along with most watching) and call the wrong winner and all this combined could cause chaos on the in running markets.

    So what would be the result of the stewards enquiry? Would the winner be allowed to keep the race and if not, on what basis would it not keep the race?

    #442992
    Avatar photorobnorth
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    • Total Posts 7515

    Yeats

    I believe the Clerk Of The Scales does a check on colours and number cloths and any declared equipment when the jockeys weigh out. The jockeys should be confimred as having the correct equipment. If there was a problem after that then it would suggest swapped equipment by those involved, he would spot it at the weigh in and would raise an objection against any deemed to have broken the rules.

    Rob

    #442994
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2171

    Rob,

    yes and no.

    yes, although the rider does not have to weigh out with the number cloth (Rule (D) 42.4.17):

    http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … 98&depth=3

    under 42.2.2 he still has to present it to the Clerk of Scales.

    but no in that he doesn’t seem to have to present the number cloth when coming back in (Rule 47):

    http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … 04&depth=3

    Easiest way to see when a horse may be disqualified is to go down the penalty table:
    http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Penalties

    Rule (B) 36.4 says " For any flat race…the horses must take their place at the start in the order drawn for them", but no penalty is listed for non-observance:

    Rule (C) 43.3 says the trainer must ensure the correct number cloth is carried

    http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … 27&depth=3

    and the penalty for non-observance is an entry-level fine of GBP 140, but nothing about disqualification (as eg is specified for ( C) 43.3 incorrect weight carried).

    Before the horse is mounted, under (B) 27.2 " The horse attendants must be provided with badges bearing numbers corresponding with those on the card and the Trainer of a horse will be reported to the Stewards if an attendant’s badge is not exhibited.", but again no penalty listed for contravention.

    Unless I’ve missed something in a quick scan down the penalty table, in the example of a combination of totally innocent circumstances resulting in wrong number-cloth / wrong stall but right jockey / right weight, there seems to be no reference to disqualifying the horse.

    In non-innocent cases, you get into (A)4 issues:

    http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … 55&depth=2

    Other rules of interest:

    Under Rule (B) 68.4 "After the announcement of Weighed In, no alteration may be made on the board or screen in respect of the numbers of the winner or placed horses."

    though under Rule (B) 62.2 "The Judge may correct any decision before the end of the period of five days starting with the day after the day of the race."

    Under Rule (B) 61.2 "The Judge’s decision as to the order in which horses past the winning post is final except where

    61.2.1 the Stewards or the Authority exercise their powers under these Rules to disqualify a horse or alter a placing,

    61.2.2 the Judge corrects a mistake in accordance with Rule 62, or

    61.2.3 the Authority changes a Judge’s decision in accordance with Rule 63. "

    #442999
    Avatar photolekha85
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    • Total Posts 330

    Every horse is checked against their passport at the racecourse and the system does seem to work as a couple of times a year a horse is identified as not being the horse in question – usually when a trainer is sending horses to two meetings and they somehow end up in the wrong horse.

    Not quite the whole story. Every horse must travel with its passport (it is illegal to transport any horse without its passport in this country) and horses that are having their first run for a new trainer, trained abroad, having the first run of their career, are due a vaccination check/ re-check and a random selection of horses each day, will have their passport checked by the BHA Veterinary Officer. A list of these horses is produced every raceday and there is a fine for any failure to produce the passport (and in some cases the horse cannot run). This largely to check vaccination records rather than ID however.

    The ID of every single horse on a raceday is checked by scanning them for their microchip prior to them entering the stables. The microchip number is checked against the records held by Weatherbys. Any discrepancy will mean the horse is not the horse it is supposed to be, which is why on a few occasions, trainers have been caught out when the wrong horse has been loaded on to the box.
    If for any reason the microchip cannot be located (they do sometimes migrate through the body) then the passport can be used as a means of identification by looking at the recorded and actual markings of the horse that are in the passport. All horses have a combination of swirls of hair, called whorls, which are as unique as fingerprints and these are recorded into a horse’s passport by a vet. They also record and white feet, legs, facial markings etc etc.
    Every thoroughbred that is going to race must be registered with Weatherbys and must have a microchip so it would be impossible for one horse to run as another these days as it wouldn’t get past the stable gate!

    #443034
    Avatar photoMiss Woodford
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    Do British horses get lip tattoos?

    #443035
    Avatar photobetlarge
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    • Total Posts 2805

    Do British horses get lip tattoos?

    No, just trainers.

    Mike

    #443064
    Adrian
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    • Total Posts 1041

    Repeated post

    #443066
    Adrian
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1041

    Lekha explains the method of checking up arrival well.

    No we don’t use lip tattoos. We’re allowed to run once in the States without them but need to get one to be allowed to run a second time. I think they are very primitive in the modern era when most countries use microchips/passports.

    I did once see an odd occurrence in the paddock at Sandown, many years ago, when two of John Dunlop’s runners in the same race were saddled with the wrong tack (got switched on way from weighing room to saddling stalls). Even the stewards in the paddock didn’t pick up the mistake until one of the jockeys – John Reid I seem to remember – jumped aboard and realised that the stirrups were set wrong for him (he rode with level stirrups) and the mistake was noted and changed before they went to post.

    #443621
    wit
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2171

    how do we know jockey is actual jockey?: :wink:

    http://www.scmp.com/sport/racing/articl … n-tomorrow

    #443718
    Avatar photolekha85
    Participant
    • Total Posts 330

    The perfect opportunity to prove the point arose today at Newmarket. A horse from the Jeremy Noseda yard could not be identified and so was not allowed to run.

    http://www.britishhorseracing.com/resources/about/whatwedo/disciplinary/stewardsEnquiries.asp

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