September 8, 2002 at 21:20 #100343LUKEMember
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Aidan -it was me who said that you can only make so many excuses for a horse and from a historical point of view this is correct.I could name hundreds of horses who have had excuses after excuse made for them.Killer Instinct,Desert Sun,Saratogan,Tobougg,the list is endless.September 9, 2002 at 07:30 #100344AnonymousInactive
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However you look at it Hawk Wing hasn’t cut the mustard! You can look back to the earlier thread about this Woodman colt not liking a fight, although Grandera [pounced so late he wasn’t given much time time.
I agree that his looks and the hype, expectation from the trainer have added to the myth.
But Coolmore want it both ways, when Hawk Wing loses again then it’s down to the coughing, day later Rock triumphs and no mention. Mick Kinnane again assumed it was his right to win on Hawk Winh and that it would be a formality – and hadn’t given Grandera and Frankie a serious shout. Dangerous. <br>September 9, 2002 at 07:40 #100345
Anyone who said that he doesnt want a fight is patently wrong. He was being scrubbed up over 1 and a half furlongs out and battled to get by a tiring Best of the bests. Now, those detractors have enough ammunition now to say that the horse is clearly not as good as he was mooted earlier on in the season, and running in the derby may have knocked the stuffing out of him.
In my opinion, he was still very unlucky not to win the 2000g, the derby was too far, but on saturday he didnt have any excuses. He was beaten fair and square by a better horse. If HW comes on for the race, brilliant, and let them have-at-it again.
But to say he didn’t battle, when it was Grandera that looked the ungenuine horse is , IMHO nonsense.<br>September 9, 2002 at 08:52 #100346ArdrossMember
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I find the crabbing of Hawk Wing very hard to understand . Sir ivor was beaten four times bewtween the Derby and washington International . Yet posterity can see that there were valid excuses for all those defeats and he is rated one of the greats of the 20th century .
Whatever ROG has doen since they believed he was a gallop short on gUineas day and HW did finish like a rocket – oK six lengths in the final furlong is an exaggeration but had he been drawn on ROG’s side there would have been only one winner .
Since then he has raced twice on unsuitable ground and been second in the Derby and won an Eclipse . Then after being ill he comes back clealry short of fitness and fails by a short head to beat Godolphin’s best horse by far after his own pacemaker has shot him in the foot .Watch that race and his earlier races . he did not pick up on Saturday and was plainly out cold at the end
I hope he will be given the chance to show his real potential and that saturday has not bottomed him. If the ground was good and they both were to run in the QEII – I do not believe that it is a foregone conclusion that ROG would win .September 9, 2002 at 09:15 #100347
it was interesting to hear Ray Cochrane say before hand that HW looked big, that he was carrying condition, whereas Grandera looked solid. I think that HW would beat grandera if both at their best, but HW has to prove that now. The horses critics had their day on Saturday and it is up to the horse to prove them wrong.September 9, 2002 at 12:45 #100348knavesmireMember
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There aint half some rubbish written about Hawk Wing! I find it hard to critise a horse that has won one Group 1 and been runner up in three others this season. To say that he’s bottler is just garbage.. he’s been beaten by inches on saturday and if you look at the photo his head is stretched as far forward as is possible! I look forward to seeing the horse back over a mile where he will be able to show his doubters his blistering turn of foot again!September 9, 2002 at 12:50 #100349knavesmireMember
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Sorry! I apologise for my terrible spelling should be criticise!!September 9, 2002 at 13:53 #100350
i do see where the criticisms of the horse are coming from. he was expected to be better than the super 2yo Johannesburg, rock of gibraltar and the rest. He was hyped, not so much by coolmore, more so by the psychophanic tabloid media, that he would have to win the triple crown on both sides of pond before the hype being satisfied.
This idea of non battling Woodman’s came about after what would be the most obvious reason for him not passing a very good derby winner in HC was dismissed out of hand.
The horse hasnt done enough to justify the hype about him at the start of the year. I think he has been unlucky and wrongly accused as a bottler. Others think different
On an aside, looking at the 2000g – is it just me or did Spencer make to go on the far side but was blocked by a horse, drawn further to the far side that chose the slow lane.September 9, 2002 at 16:33 #100351MeshaheerMember
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Everytime HW runs we hear media rubbish like "He’ll hack up" "A formality" the next wonder horse etc
I’m not saying he isn’t good, but he ain’t no Pegasus so why can’t people realise he isn’t one despite the excuses. Looking back on his National Stakes win, Naheef was in 2nd and look where he is now…September 9, 2002 at 18:23 #100352AidanMember
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Please dont even dare put Hawk Wing a dual Group1 winner and Derby runner up in the same category as Killer Instinct. That really is insulting.<br> Meshaheer surely you of all people know Naheef like nearly every other Godolphin 2 year old has’nt trained on. Hawk Wing did break the track record when beating Naheef.September 9, 2002 at 19:29 #100353DaylightMember
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You never know, if the horse finishes the season with more excuses we may see him as a 4 year old?
But I doubt it.<br>September 10, 2002 at 07:35 #100354
the all aged track record at that. This thing that he hasnt lived up to the hype. There was more than a neck in the difference between the far side and the near side at Newmarket. That was ROG he was beaten by. Not exactly a mug. I think if ROG got injured the day after teh guineas, HW would have had his campaign.
agree with aidan comparing the horse to killer instinct, desert sun, and saratogan is wrong.September 10, 2002 at 11:13 #100355TullochMember
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I’m guessing we see the real ‘Hawk’ in the QEII. I think Magnier will decide that HW needs another classic to his three year old European season before the BC Classic, I think they’ll give Hawk Wing a chance to show the public what ROG has done already.<br>What do people think?September 10, 2002 at 17:37 #100356STE601Member
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I still believe we have not seen the best of this horse yet . A lot of hype has surrounded this horse and expectations will always be high but given more oppertunities i think he can achieve the goals the press has given him, to prove himself one of the best horses of his era.September 10, 2002 at 19:52 #100357ArdrossMember
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As far as the QEII is concerned it will depend on the ground . If it is at all soft ROG will turn up. They do not want to risk HW being turned over by Gossamer which on very soft ground is more than a distinct possibility .
If it is good ground or better I think we will see HW
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