Happy retirement 'Blue'

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This topic contains 23 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by Triptych Triptych 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #1446908
    Triptych
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    So today the not entirely unexpected decision has been made to retire Blue Point to stud with immediate effect.
    It was easy to see how much this horse meant to both his owner Sheikh Mohammed and more especially to his doting trainer Charlie Appleby who found it hard to hold back the tears after his amazing victory in the Diamond Jubilee on Saturday after winning the Kings Stand Stakes on Tuesday. He retires unbeaten this season winning all of his 3 Group races at Meydan racecourse culminating with the Al Quoz Sprint at the Dubai World Cup Festival on Saturday 30th March.

    I’m sorry that I won’t be seeing him at Newmarket in the July Cup but hoping that he will be standing at Sheikh Mohammed’s Dalham Hall Stud, Newmarket as I’m visiting in August, a late birthday present. :good: The last time I visited Dalham Hal New Approach had just retired and now look what he has achieved.

    I wish the same for Blue Point and that he will be a true blue chip stallion and produce many exciting sprinters for us to follow their careers as we have followed his.

    I’m quite emotional writing this as he has been an inspiration for me and I will so miss him not being on the racing scene any more, but on the positive side I think it was the right decision to retire him at the peak of his career, he really has nothing more to prove.

    :heart: HAPPY RETIREMENT BLUE POINT :heart:

    Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
    #1446915
    Bachelors Hall
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    Peculiar to see him being retired at this time of year. Might he be heading down to the southern hemisphere for coverings?

    #1446923
    Triptych
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    Hope not BH, he’s only recently been flown over from Dubai so hope they will give him a well deserved holiday to kick his heels up before he gets down to becoming a serious stallion.

    Sheikh Mohammed has said that he will stand at Dalham Hall next year so I’m getting more hopeful of seeing him in August. :rose:

    Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
    #1446979
    Gingertipster
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    he really has nothing more to prove.

    Really, Jac?

    Blue Point was above the average standard of King’s Stand and Diamond Jubilee winner, but can understand why connections took the decision to retire him. Horses for courses. Far better ability and consistency at Meydan and Ascot than anywhere else.

    Only raced at Ascot from 3 year old upwards.
    8 Wins from 10 starts at Ascot and Meydan… And produced (at that time) career bests in his two defeats.
    0 from 4 everywhere else in that same time period, judging by Timeform Performance Ratings never any better than 18 lbs short of his previous best.

    3 wins from 6 starts – all away from Ascot as a two year old. Just as he later was in the July Cup, twice below form at Newmarket as a 2 year old. Didn’t stay in Dewhurst but also beaten by The Last Lion in Middle Park. No wonder they wanted to bypass this year’s July Cup.
    Also managed to get beaten at odds-on in Goodwood’s Richmond Stakes by Mehmas. Can understand them not wanting to take on Battaash at the latter’s favourite racecourse – Goodwood.
    Those three 2 year old victories came at Nottingham (maiden), Doncaster (Class 4) and York (Group 2)
    York is almost as fast a racecourse as Goodwood. Put up a good performance at 6f in the Gimcrack; but the way he was very much outpaced in last year’s Nunthorpe over 5… best to stay clear in 2019.
    Beaten 8 lengths by Harry Angel in Haydock’s Sprint Cup, doubt they’d have wanted to go back there either.

    Of course that record could be coincidence and am not criticising connections decision – I’d have done the same… No doubting Blue Point’s is one of the best sprinters we’ve seen in the last decade, Jac. But still had it all to prove away from his beloved Ascot and Meydan.

    Conclusion: Connections did not believe him capable of that brilliant best anywhere else/did not want to take Battaash on at courses unfavourable to Blue Point. :rose:

    Happy retirement, Blue. :good:

    value is everything
    #1446980
    jackh1092
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    Beaten 8 lengths by Harry Angel in Haydock’s Sprint Cup, doubt they’d have wanted to go back there either.

    I’d doubt many horses would want to go back to Haydock’s heavy ground to be fair GT! Think it’s fair to say that Blue Point has been aimed at Meydan and Ascot for the past two seasons and trained to the minute for them. Perhaps afterwards he’s been a bit over the top.

    Given that Blue Point has proven himself adaptable over 5f and 6f makes him the best sprinter in the past couple of years. Better than Battaash who doesn’t seem to stay a yard further than a sharp 5f IMO.

    Twitter: Jackh1092
    Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!

    #1446983
    Triptych
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    If he were yours or mine Ginge would we not want him to run on his favoured courses. I think he did brilliantly to win 2 sprints at different distances on different ground within 4 days and as Jack said Battaash doesnt stay further than 5f just like Sole Power who also couldn’t go the extra furlong and tried and failed to win the July Cup 3 times.

    I also think that this horse is the apple of Sheikh Mohammeds and Charlie Applebys eye and he’s the best they’ve had in the sprinting division thus far and don’t forget he has been on the go since February with a break before Royal Ascot.

    Best of luck to him and thanks for making this years Royal Ascot the best I’ve seen for some years. :rose: Jac

    Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
    #1447014
    viktors89
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    A joy to watch him progress from his 1st start to the amazing royal ascot double.
    This is one I will always remember.

    Happy retirement Blue Point!

    #1447022
    Gingertipster
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    I’d doubt many horses would want to go back to Haydock’s heavy ground to be fair GT! Think it’s fair to say that Blue Point has been aimed at Meydan and Ascot for the past two seasons and trained to the minute for them. Perhaps afterwards he’s been a bit over the top.

    Given that Blue Point has proven himself adaptable over 5f and 6f makes him the best sprinter in the past couple of years. Better than Battaash who doesn’t seem to stay a yard further than a sharp 5f IMO.

    If needing a rest then he could easily have been given a rest before coming back later in the season, Jack.

    You’re talking about Haydock. That going report produced by Mr Tellwrong. Take a look at race times during that day (not just Harry Angel’s Sprint Cup). Be Friendly Handicap 2.84 seconds slow, just 0.57 seconds per furlong slower than standard. Sprint Cup 3.7 seconds slow, just 0.62 per furlong slower than standard etc. It’s a physical impossibility of being proper heavy ground. Indeed, on Blue Point’s very next race – Bengough Stakes at Ascot in October, where Blue Point won – race times strongly suggest the ground was just as slow as Haydock. ie Why not go back to Haydock? He wasn’t over the top when racing at Ascot in October on going that was (on race times) no better than Haydock.

    You surprise me Jack. It should not matter what the race distance is, what matters is the standard of performance whatever the distance. ie Unfortunately it’s not as easy as this but.. Let’s say there’s a horse that shows exactly the same level of form every time it races and at all distances from 5f to 2 3/4 miles. “The best” horse would then be the one that beats that horse by the most lbs. “The best” can be a stayer, middle-distance, miler or sprinter. Why should a stayer or 5f sprinter be disqualified from being the best when their form is actually better than the rest?

    Being more adaptable in distance is of course admirable, but doesn’t make him “the best”. Otherwise you’re always penalising a horses having too much speed or too much stamina. ie Battaash has so much speed that it would be impossible for him (or Sole Power or Dayjur etc) to be as good at 6f as he is at 5f. Just because a horse wins at both 5 and 6f does not mean the form shown is any better than a horse needing 5f… Unless wanting to judge horses purely by the name of race rather than actual form? Dream Of Dreams – who is not exactly recognised as being a brlliant sprinter – only needed to produce a 1 lb better performance for Blue Point not to have won. Blue Point would’ve had the same distances back to the field so there’d be no difference in form shown by Blue Point… And yet because he actually won the race you’re regarding him as the best.

    How can a horse be “the best” if there’s another horse capable of producing better form than “the best”? :unsure:

    Battaash has produced top, top class performances at three courses; Goodwood, Haydock and Chantilly and people want to knock him down for (so far) not being able to show his brilliance at the stiffer Ascot… Where as Blue Point is only able to show anything like his best at two courses; Ascot and Meydan… and people are willing to believe him “the best”. Is there a recency bias working here? And/or is it a Royal Ascot bias in the same way as the famous National Hunt Cheltenham bias – believing all Cheltenham/Ascot form better than elsewhere? And/or is it that Battaash has taken on Blue Point twice at a course that favours Blue Point and connections of Blue Point don’t want to reciprocate? :rose:

    value is everything
    #1447023
    Gingertipster
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    If he were yours or mine Ginge would we not want him to run on his favoured courses. I think he did brilliantly to win 2 sprints at different distances on different ground within 4 days and as Jack said Battaash doesnt stay further than 5f just like Sole Power who also couldn’t go the extra furlong and tried and failed to win the July Cup 3 times.

    I think Blue Point did brilliantly too, jac; but I don’t write horses down for losing when things are not in their favour. If Blue Point should not run at courses thought not to favour him then it’s surely the same with all horses? Does that mean in your opinion Battaash should not have taken on Blue Point at Ascot because it was not Battaash’s favoured course Goodwood… And that Diamond Jubilee 3rd Katchy should not have done so either because it was not at Haydock/the AW? If not careful you’ll end up with three horse races for Royal Ascot Group 1 races.

    As you’re marking down Battaash and now Sole Power for actually trying to win races which may not suit them… It’s clear connections made the right decision in not exposing Blue Point’s reputation by racing on; especially when (unlike Battaash and Sole Power) he’s got a stud career to come. :rose:

    value is everything
    #1447024
    KevMc
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    The adaptability over form argument isn’t a simply right or wrong thing. Especially with flat horses when potential stallions are being discussed. Battaash was gelded and can only run his best at a quick 5F. BP can run to a very good Group 1 level over 5F & 6F, not as good as Battaash is at his peak, but i’d trade in a couple of pounds for that versatility and mentality.

    It’s basically like the argument between Frankel & Sea The Stars. Frankel was clearly the better racehorse on all measures of form, splits & ratings.
    But he never went further than 10F nor travelled. STS won the classics over 8F-12F and the best of them all, the Arc. I’m a STS and i don’t want to get into this convo once more, but it’s similar.

    #1447025
    Gingertipster
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    but it’s similar.

    No it isn’t, Kev.

    value is everything
    #1447038
    Triptych
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    With all due respect Ginge it is Blue Points versatility to win over both 5f and 6f that we are celebrating here and I was in no way marking down Battaash and Sole Power for only achieving wins over 5 furlongs they are both amazing sprinters but with limitations.

    On the day that Blue Point won the Diamond Jubilee he was resting on his hind leg whilst waiting to be loaded into the starting stalls.
    Charlie Appleby had him primed to the minute on Saturday but he didn’t boil over as many top sprinters would have done he went out and won his race giving his all at the finish and making a piece of Ascot history that was so good for the sport. We should be celebrating a great sprinter not harping on about his weaknesses even though you said that he did brilliantly,
    So, respecting all your comments Ginge :mail: ..I still stand by what I said originally that he has nothing more to prove. :heart: Jac

    Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
    #1447040
    Nathan Hughes
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    Battaash is a decent example that ratings can be over rated :yes:

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    #1447041
    hein bollow
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    I absolutely support Jac’s statements :good: and I completely don’t understand the critisism :unsure:
    Dear Blue Point, thank you so much for giving us these highlights, enjoy your deserved retirement, the girls are waiting for you B-)

    #1447052
    jackh1092
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    ou surprise me Jack. It should not matter what the race distance is, what matters is the standard of performance whatever the distance. ie Unfortunately it’s not as easy as this but.. Let’s say there’s a horse that shows exactly the same level of form every time it races and at all distances from 5f to 2 3/4 miles. “The best” horse would then be the one that beats that horse by the most lbs. “The best” can be a stayer, middle-distance, miler or sprinter. Why should a stayer or 5f sprinter be disqualified from being the best when their form is actually better than the rest?

    I understand what you are saying + i also agree Battaash is likely to produce a better performance in his career than Blue Point. However, to me Blue Point having more versatility puts him down as a better horse overall. My opinion just of course!

    Twitter: Jackh1092
    Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!

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