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He wouldnt have FF91 imo. He idols when he gets in front Gosden said
So with a clear run he wouldve led earlier in the straight and been a bigger sitting duck. Racing Tv pundits seem to be sharing this view. Can’t blame Trueshan either he just had the tactical speed to follow Kyprios on the outer.Why are they carrying on with him? Is he really that undesired at stud? Unless they send him to Ireland or France he doesn’t have any G1’s left to race for.
Strad got there and got run out of it. He might have been better coming later but I get the feeling the winner will always have his number under any scenario.
The winner is a bit of star and and going the right way. I thought todays race was a rare example of most protagonists running their race and a satisfactory result…unlike the King George fiasco for example.
Its a pity we never got to see more of Mark Johnsons horse (names escapes me) who have been fascinating rival for Trueshan on soft.
SHL
Subjectivist is the one you are thinking of. We sadly lost Scope as well who I think was an emerging force in the division, especially on softer ground. The staying division is in good health which is great to see because although Strad has dominated he only really had a few years of ding dongs with Order Of St George and lately with Trueshan, the other years the division was awful.
“Trueshan is good and everything I just personally can’t rate a horse highly that only goes on bad ground, ground that blunts the speed of the other horses”.
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Eh?
Is good going “bad ground”?
Is All weather “bad ground”?
Horses should surely be judged on the quality of form they show on whatever ground they show it on.
Is pretty simple:
Trueshan on his favoured ground is capable of better form (ie a better rating) than Kyprios is capable of on his favoured ground.
Value Is Everything“Kyprios’s form is simply not as good as the decade’s Champion Stayer Stradivarius was in his prime, or as good as this season’s champion stayer Trueshan is this year on different ground.”
It’s Kyprios’s rookie season as a stayer. Bit early to make comparisons. :o)
How many more excuses are going to be made for Stradivarius. He has been beaten by a better horse. Twice.
“Trueshan on his favoured ground is capable of better form (ie a better rating) than Kyprios is capable of on his favoured ground.”
Means very little when 2 horses want different ground. Look at Yeats. A legend yet last of 8 on his only group 1 on soft.
Is trueshan better on soft ground or is he the same horse and the others are worse?
That would be my opinion personally, it was my opinion about adeyybb too
He needs the slow ground to slow the rest down
Shall I add a few
For effect lol
Possibly CAS,
Stradivarius got absolutely no luck in running in the Gold Cup, especially when you take into account how the interference happened just when everything else was quickening.Today wasn’t quite as bad and sectionals may tell us it may or may not have actually helped Strad’. But on the face of it when you see the head on it wasn’t just Trueshan keeping Strad’ in, Thunderous aslo blunted his momentum.
So is not easy to be certain.
However, where you are definitely correct is that Kyprios is a far more straightforward and consistent type.
Value Is Everything“Means very little when 2 horses want different ground. Look at Yeats. A legend yet last of 8 on his only group 1 on soft”.
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Not sure what your point is, Mike?
All you do with Yeats is – the same as any horse – judge how good he is on his best form. So the last of 8 does not come into it.
Value Is EverythingI’m with you FF91 to a degree. Difficult for a flat horse to get ‘champion status’ in my mind when it has to wait until it chucks it down in the Autumn to reverse form away from the prestigious summer championship races.
Yeah I’m definitely not saying he’s crap Mike, in his conditions he’s very hard to beat.
I just can’t rate him that close in my personal rankings of top stayers to Stradivarius in his pomp when he was 4, 5 and 6 and beat all comers and won on everything from gd to firm to soft
Despite the official figures not having much in it
Maybe I’m being unfair, but I’d be much more inclined to forgive a horse that doesn’t run well on soft ground than forgive one that doesn’t run well on good ground
But that’s just my opinion
Ginger, my view is Stradivarius is not quite as good as he was 2 or 3 years ago. He is being beaten by a younger horse who is thoroughly tough as old boots and with a touch of class as well.
Maybe everything was not 100% perfect for Stradivarius today but he still had a good chance and did not win. Kyprios finds plenty for pressure and I believe he could have found even more if required.
Horses who keep having excuses made for them. How the bookmakers love them!
Stradivarius definitely isn’t as good as he was
Has to be 6 or 7lb below his peak even as a conservative estimate
“Trueshan is good and everything I just personally can’t rate a horse highly that only goes on bad ground, ground that blunts the speed of the other horses”.
Is trueshan better on soft ground or is he the same horse and the others are worse?”
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If believing the form on a firmer surface is automatically always its best form then you’re headed for a fall.
You rightly acknowledge some firm ground horses have a valid excuse when not showing their best on different ground, FF.
So why can’t it be the other way around too?
Why can’t you acknowledge those that want good or all weather or good-soft have a valid excuse when racing on good-firm?Some horses don’t have a pointy top-of-the-ground action.
Some are just best on different ground.Value Is EverythingMost racehorses, even outstanding Group 1 horses are ground/distance dependant.
I think Frankel was hating the Heavy ground at Ascot on his final appearance, but he overcame it to beat Cirrus Des Aigles on a surface the latter loved.
On Good ground Frankel would probably have won ten lengths.
It wasn’t a road today – Trueshan wouldn’t have run if it was – but it was watered Good to Firm, effectively just about Good.
Trueshan won off 120 on the AW, he’s capable of that form on Soft ground, but not quite on this surface.
But softer ground might have disadvantaged his rivals.
Today’s ground was probably as fair to all as it gets.
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