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Gold Cup 2021

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Viewing 14 posts - 166 through 179 (of 179 total)
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  • #1524698
    shipithollabolla
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 129

    I suspect the same people who are knocking Champ for his jumping also thought Kauto Star would never get around Cheltenham and was a lay in 2007.

    Sometimes you’ve got to open your eyes to what is obvious – Champ looks the best horse in the race by quite a margin.

    Al Boum Photo is a vanilla Gold Cup winner (despite doing it twice). He’s a Native River or War Of Attrition rather than the all-time great some seem to take him for.

    #1524700
    Mike007
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2712

    A Plus Tard cheated his way to win The Savills Chase. The jockey whipped the horse too many times and got a ban otherwise he’s not won. I don’t think Rachel Blackmore will cheat. If you got bigger prices ew then ok, but that Savills Chase doesn’t sit comfortably with me. The step up in trip would have to bring improvement.

    Think its between Al Boum Photo and Champ (if Nico rides as expected) for the win now. Plenty of contenders for a place.

    #1524710
    jackh1092
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3021

    Too many whips or not, the horse had it in his locker to win the race Mike, also, Blackmore is a better jockey so that’s a positive and you’d presume you’d get a better ride + less chance of needing a whip bashing.
    Quietly fancy him myself, but i don’t often go too mad in this race betting wise.

    Why does it depend on Nico riding for Champ?

    Ship that’s interesting, i’d say you’re doing ABP a disservice, but that’s your opinion. “Quite a margin”, how good do you really think Champ is out of interest?

    Twitter: Jackh1092
    Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!

    #1524715
    shipithollabolla
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 129

    I think 175 overrates Al Boum Photo by 5-8lbs and I think Champ is capable of a high 170s performance if able to fully express himself with fitness, jumping, run of the race etc.

    It’s probably Champ’s one and only chance to run to that level as he’ll be into double digits next year. I also suspect, given his pedigree and niggly wind issue (family of Best Mate, Cornish Rebel etc) that better ground would enhance his chance. It’s to his huge credit that he could win the RSA last year despite soft ground, a pretty dreadful round of jumping and possibly gurgling if Hendo is to be believed.

    #1524724
    Mike007
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2712

    The winning margin was small enough for it to have made the difference. As I said, if he improves again for another 2 and a half furlongs you never know, I think he will need to find it to beat the reigning champ for one.

    jackh1092 Why does it depend on Nico riding for Champ?

    Coz he will have a choice of rides so picking Champ would be a positive.

    #1524752
    jackh1092
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3021

    I suppose yeah. If i thought the horse was good enough myself, i wouldn’t care if Nico De Boinville rode him or not.

    Twitter: Jackh1092
    Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!

    #1524782
    He Didnt Like Ground
    Participant
    • Total Posts 986

    Ship I’m struggling to see where you are coming from , you call Alboum and Native River vanilla horses , vanilla horses don’t win 2 gold cups or in Natives case a gold cup, numerous grade 1 and 2,s, Hennessey and a welsh gn off top weight and still even at eleven be one of the best staying chasers in England , champ hasn’t achieved anywhere near that despite being 9

    As for believing Alboum is 167 not 175 yet champ can be high 170s …Alboum has delievered the performances for that mark , if we are to believe you then champ will beat Alboum by 10 lengths ….I can’t see that …esp as he will clatter the fences going around , he may win but if he does it won’t be by far

    #1525306
    shipithollabolla
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 129

    I think you’re wrong, HDLG. I’m not saying Native River or Al Boum Photo aren’t in the top 0.2% or whatever of staying chasers. They clearly are. But if you’re rating them against other Gold Cup winners, I think they’d be in the bottom half.

    It’s like Best Mate, isn’t it? On bare ratings, he was not a truly great Gold Cup winner. He had some great qualities for consistency and jumping and he won the thing three times, but on actual performances he was just a bit better than mediocre.

    #1525385
    He Didnt Like Ground
    Participant
    • Total Posts 986

    Native has only been out of the first 3 in 14 runs….and that was 4th in a GC , he’s not Kauto star , he wouldn’t win a tingle creek but in the same way Kauto wouldn’t have won a welsh gn , you have to look at the way he has held his form , most horses are never the same after winning a GC , he,s also come back from 2 tendon injuries , I can’t see how he,s in the bottom half of GC winners

    #1525388
    shipithollabolla
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 129

    Native River is an admirable horse. I like him. I’d love to have him in my back garden. He’s tough, he’s consistent, he has lasted a long time.

    But if we’re talking about ratings and basic ability, he’s a sub-average Gold Cup winner. I don’t think that’s a particularly controversial summary of Native River.

    #1525391
    Ex RubyLight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1852

    Best Mate could have won 5 times at the Festival. He travelled the furthest in the Supreme and wasn’t suited by the 2 mile trip and he was robbed of an Arkle win the year after due to Food and Mouth.

    He won a King George and was 2nd in it the year before, he also won an Ericsson Chase in 2003 and was 2nd a year later after banging his head while on the ferry to Ireland.

    I doubt that Al Boum Photo is that good…..

    #1525398
    He Didnt Like Ground
    Participant
    • Total Posts 986

    Ship he,s been the best English stayer of the last few years , which horses are you comparing him to ? , the year he won he beat that years KG winner ….what more could he have done

    #1525401
    shipithollabolla
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 129

    I give up, kid – I don’t think you grasp what I’m saying. Have you noticed the little numbers on the right of the racecard?

    They’re called ratings. They are used to compare horses in terms of their level of ability.

    Native River won a very poor Gold Cup, beating a very poor King George winner, in specialist conditions that were much better suited to him than most other horses in the race.

    Of all the Gold Cup winners since the year 1999, I would only place Lord Windermere and Synchronised below him.

    #1525412
    He Didnt Like Ground
    Participant
    • Total Posts 986

    Ship I’m not a kid …ratings aren’t everything , is cyrname the best chaser in training …of course not , you believe what you want to I’ve made my point , just out of interest which horses are you putting above him from recent years …Kauto and Denman I more than understand anything else I’d say would be debatable

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