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Gord,
If I may remind you, the last National Grand National I did not back was Ballabriggs.Le Beau Bai, Neptune Collonges, Merigo, Monbeg Dude, Aurora’s Encore, Mountainous, Pineau De Re…
All bar last named main bets.
Not doing too badly my way.
Ginge if I may remind you of that very accurate saying I use to describe your betting….."Lying,Cheating,Charlatan" I believe!
You are suggesting here thatAuroras Encore
was a ‘Main’ bet as if it was your sole bet in the race,that is blatantly
Lying
.Suggesting it was a ‘Main bet’ when you only had 4 points on it and over 25 points on others in the same race is blatantly
Cheating
so that makes you a
Charlatan
.
Anyone of us can bet like you do with your wild scattergun approach.I’d compare my betting like watering a seed and watching it develop,yours is just tipping a bucket of water over the seed and drowning it. I notice you have invested around 400 points this week on horses,thats very concerning,you are definitely showing signs of compulsive behaviour and your betting patterns confirm this.Now if like most on here believe you are betting to a pound a point then only your overall profit becomes dissapointing but if like you try to have us believe its nearer £10 a point then having £4000 on in a week is deeply worrying,particularly when you’ve just lost most of it.You do need to discipline yourself as you are chucking money about like a launderer and if you want to wash your dirty Linen in public………….
I backed Panto Prince to win the Victor Chandler Chase at Ascot; he came over the last in a dual with Desert Orchid. I was shouting "Go on Panto, go on Panto, go on Panto"! Then suddenly surprised myself, half-way up the run-in (without thinking) "go on Dessie, go on Dessie, go on Dessie!
Since then it’s not been unusual for me to cheer on one of my favourite horses against one I’ve backed.TAPK…..what a jerk you are. Your idiotic jibes confirm the fact that you just don’t get it. Despite GT explaining the notion of value to you numerous times, you see fit to bad mouth a winning system. That you don’t understand doesn’t deem it nonsense. Prick!
Gord,
If I may remind you, the last National Grand National I did not back was Ballabriggs.Le Beau Bai, Neptune Collonges, Merigo, Monbeg Dude, Aurora’s Encore, Mountainous, Pineau De Re…
All bar last named main bets.
Not doing too badly my way.Ginge if I may remind you of that very accurate saying I use to describe your betting….."Lying,Cheating,Charlatan" I believe!
You are suggesting here thatAuroras Encore
was a ‘Main’ bet as if it was your sole bet in the race,that is blatantly
Lying
.Suggesting it was a ‘Main bet’ when you only had 4 points on it and over 25 points on others in the same race is blatantly
Cheating
so that makes you a
Charlatan
.
The wind up merchant is having another go.
Arrhhh, is the After-Timing King jealous of my success/profits again? Diddums.As I said:
I study the race and identify horses I believe are value, and back the very best as main bets and others as either half stakes or savers.
These were my stakes for the 2013 Grand National. Putting a total of 121 points on the race (not including the NRNB). With potential returns in blue and red.
2013 Grand National
18 points @ 33/1 (b365) Cappa Bleu*612
points.
24 points @ 20/1 (VC) Teaforthree* (min 16/1)504
points.
18 points @ 33/1 (FD) Wyck Hill* (min 20/1)612
points.
10 points @ 50/1 (Sky NRNB) Lion Na Bearnai* (min 28/1)15 points @ 20/1 (FD NRNB) Balthazar King (min 16/1)
315
points.
4 points @ 119/1 (betfair) Auroras Encore (min 50/1)(£130 available)
Aurora’s Encore returned 480 points.
3 points @ 339/1 (betfair) Tarquinius (min 80/1)(£5 available)
1020
points.
26 points @ 10/1 (WH) On His Own* (min 8/1)286
points.
8 points @ 12/1 (L) Seabass (min 12/1)
104
points.
3 points @ 33/1 (betfair) Join Together (min 25/1)102
points.
2 points @ 47/1 (betfair) Soll (min 40/1)96
points.
Yes, the Aurora’s Encore bet was only 4 points, but the
return
was
480 points
! That’s far
more
than my average win! Even now, when my stakes are higher I rarely win that much.
I’d class
7
of the 10 horses backed as "main bets".
Only Seabass, Join Together and Soll as "saver bets". With potential to get back most of the total 121 points back.
Maybe you’d prefer only
1
"main bet", but that is
not
how I choose to work Gordie Boy, and what’s more you know it.
My
biggest bet
was actually On His Own with
26
points staked. But that had a potential return of
only 286
points. That’s
the worst
of my 7 main bets and almost 200 points short of what I won on Aurora’s Encore.
You really must try and think things through before you comment, especially with name calling like that.
If my
4
points bet is not a "main bet", then what about Tarquinius?
He had just 3
points staked, yet had a potential return of over
1000
points,
much more
than any other selection.
How can winning a four figure sum on a race not be a "main bet"?
Value Is EverythingAnyone of us can bet like you do with your wild scattergun approach.I’d compare my betting like watering a seed and watching it develop,yours is just tipping a bucket of water over the seed and drowning it. I notice you have invested around 400 points this week on horses,thats very concerning,you are definitely showing signs of compulsive behaviour and your betting patterns confirm this.Now if like most on here believe you are betting to a pound a point then only your overall profit becomes dissapointing but if like you try to have us believe its nearer £10 a point then having £4000 on in a week is deeply worrying,particularly when you’ve just lost most of it.You do need to discipline yourself as you are chucking money about like a launderer and if you want to wash your dirty Linen in public………….
If "anyone" can bet like me and succeed Gordie Boy, then why not do so? Then again, I suppose you did tell everyone you’re not interested in such vulgar things as making a profit these days
.My average number of selections per race is 3, so every time you back two horses each way (4 bets, with 2 win bets and 2
saver
place bets) you’re actually having more bets than my average. Shame you don’t have the confidence and "discipline" to bet win only.
I made a point recently of saying I do
not
bet "£10 a point", but haven’t said how much. Believe what you like, it’s none of your business. Anyone can come on here and put an extra zero or two on their actual pound stakes.
Which is why I keep to points. This is an advisory thread and should not matter how much I personally bet.Anyone following my tips can decide for themselves how much a point is worth
to them
. I’ve reccommended punters use 0.0001 of their savings per point. So if they’ve got £5,000 saved it’s 50p per point, £10,000 saved it’s £1 per point, if £20,000 it’s £2 per point, if £100,000 it’s £10 a point etc. etc. But is up to each individual.
Just because I have a bad week now and again, doesn’t mean I am "compulsive". Losing money is only "deeply worrying" if a punter is losing overall Gordie Boy, you’d know more about that than me. Money in my bank account keeps on getting bigger. Don’t see where you got that I’ve "just lost most of it"? From the Cheltenham Festival onwards it’s been fairly easy pickings.
Value Is EverythingI backed Panto Prince to win the Victor Chandler Chase at Ascot; he came over the last in a dual with Desert Orchid. I was shouting "Go on Panto, go on Panto, go on Panto"! Then suddenly surprised myself, half-way up the run-in (without thinking) "go on Dessie, go on Dessie, go on Dessie!
Since then it’s not been unusual for me to cheer on one of my favourite horses against one I’ve backed.Back in the eighties I was backing just one horse per race.
Just proves betting is all that matters to you Gordie Boy. My "Favourite" horses are
not
ones I "back regularly", they
are
those I have most admiration for. Usually either ultra-genuine or top class animals. I won a fair bit on J Wonder at Newbury yesterday, but the impressive way Kingman (only a saver) won means he’s special, much more of a "favourite" than the filly will ever be.
Unfortunately, bookmakers don’t give special enhanced odds for my "favourite" horses. It would be absolutely stupid (acting like a mug punter) to back a "favourite" horse @ 6/4 if in my opinion it had a fair 3/1 chance. Also be stupid if not backing something I thought tremendous value
when racing against
my favourite. Would’ve thought that was obvious.
Value Is EverythingAnyone of us can bet like you do with your wild scattergun approach.I’d compare my betting like watering a seed and watching it develop,yours is just tipping a bucket of water over the seed and drowning it. I notice you have invested around 400 points this week on horses.
I made a point recently of saying I do
not
bet "£10 a point", but haven’t said how much.
Which is why I keep to points. This is an advisory thread and should not matter how much I personally bet
Anyone following my tips can decide for themselves how much a point is worthto them
. I’ve reccommended punters use 0.0001 of their savings per point. So if they’ve got £5,000 saved it’s 50p per point, £10,000 saved it’s £1 per point, if £20,000 it’s £2 per point, if £100,000 it’s £10 a point etc. etc. But is up to each individual.
Ffs,You get worse.No-one on here has ever staked 0.0001 of their savings on your say so! Your threads are an accurate reflection of a system that in reality doesn’t exist and the increase in wagers recently only confirms this,you dont invest £500 on each race 4 to 5 times before racing even commences as your whole persona is one of insecurity and the low risk type of person you are.I respect your originality but there are certain wagers you put up that clearly expose your frailties,not least in the fact that some of them just wouldn’t get past the counter.
TAPK…..what a jerk you are. Your idiotic jibes confirm the fact that you just don’t get it. Despite GT explaining the notion of value to you numerous times, you see fit to bad mouth a winning system. That you don’t understand doesn’t deem it nonsense. Prick!
Sorry I missed your post Pantherirons, thanks for your support. I don’t think The Aftertiming King will ever understand my way of betting, it’s all too logical for him.
Value Is EverythingI often wonder why you bet to Points but the more I read your made up rubbish the more you confirm to me that you bet in Peanuts.You would have to be betting to at least £5 a point for your waffle to be taken seriously but we both know you dont even bet the horses you put up as there isn’t a Bookmaker out there that would entertain your business.
So why do you make out its a true reflection of your betting? You are advising punters to bet up to 10 horses at times,Nobody will bet like that in the real world.
As I said Gordie Boy,
"Believe what you like, it’s none of your business" what my actual stakes are. I"often wonder"
whether you put another zero (or two) on to your actual stakes for thread purposes. Hope for your sake I’m right, because those losing runs mean massive losses for a mere builder with family commitments to absorb. So I guess it works both ways.
I bet on
every
horse I put up on this thread, apart from the ones I can not get a price (which is probably only one or two a season). eg If something I make a 20% (fair 4/1) is available @ 5/1 with Victor Chandler and Stan James (bookmakers that have closed my accounts) yet only best priced 4/1 with all other bookmakers and Betfair… I will advise my follower to take the 5/1 even though I am unable to personally back it. Hoping at some point another bookie I have got an account with eventually goes 5/1 so I can get on.
If you look at when I bet: When backing more than a few selections in a race they are not done all at the same time. There is no reason why I can not put this number of bets on.
There are also many horses I put up with a bookmaker, yet have personally taken betfair prices. I prefer to give
bookmaker
prices available because it is
fairer
. A lot of the time betfair prices are subject to poor/poorish liquidity and can disappear very quickly. I don’t put up a price
I’ve taken
unless it is
still
available. ie a price
must
be still available
at time of writing
…
…So there is the occasional bet I’ve had where the value price is
no longer
available and therefore unable to put them up here. Such horses that win I don’t talk about because it would be
aftertiming
… and plenty of them don’t win anyway. It would be wrong of me to talk about all the aftertimer winners when not mentioning the non-thread losers.
This/these threads are not an absolute copy of my betting, but is a
"true reflection"
of my betting.
The only time I put up
"10 horses"
in a race is in the Grand National. I say yet again… my average number of selections per race is just
three
. Be my guest and count them up if you don’t believe me. This "three" average means every time you put up two horses (which isn’t at all unusual) two win bets and two place bets mean
you
‘re actually putting
more
bets on than
my average
.
You prefer to have saver place bets, I prefer to have win bet savers on rivals to my main selection/s… get over it. Have you ever stopped to think of what you are doing by laying horses Gordie Boy? You were so jubilant of your small run of lay bet "winners" before Faugheen ended it. Fair enough, I have no problem with it if that’s what you want to do. But what you were actually doing was backing
every
other runner to beat
one
. In Faugheen’s case putting £500 on
fourteen
horses to beat
one!!!
, backing
93.33%
of the runners… And Faugheen won.
Yet you keep on moaning about me backing three
horses or even
ten horses in a fourty
runner field.
Value Is EverythingAnyone following my tips can decide for themselves how much a point is worth
to them
. I’ve reccommended punters use 0.0001 of their savings per point. So if they’ve got £5,000 saved it’s 50p per point, £10,000 saved it’s £1 per point, if £20,000 it’s £2 per point, if £100,000 it’s £10 a point etc. etc. But is up to each individual.
Do you ever read the rubbish you write? You recommend punters to stake 0.0001 of their savings?
Ffs,You get worse.No-one on here has ever staked 0.0001 of their savings on your say so! Your threads are an accurate reflection of a system that in reality doesn’t exist and the increase in wagers recently only confirms this,you dont invest £500 on each race 4 to 5 times before racing even commences as your whole persona is one of insecurity and the low risk type of person you are.I respect your originality but there are certain wagers you put up that clearly expose your frailties,not least in the fact that some of them just wouldn’t get past the counter.
I am by no means perfect Gordie boy, but strange thing is my
"frailties"
enable me to make a good profit. Yours on the other hand…
Having been asked about staking/betting banks said what I’d
advise
my follower to stake. It is in fact up to my follower to decide for himself whether to follow my tips at all and if so what stakes he’s happy with.
It would really be a shame if absolutely
"No-one on here has ever staked 0.0001 of their savings on my say so"!
Because he/she/they/you’d
have made loads of money if doing so! Come on now, admit it, secretly TAPK backs every selection GT puts up on these threads. 
However, am somewhat concerned for your dependants. Seems you believe amounts staked should have nothing to do with the amount of money at your disposal.
Again, how much I invest is entirely
my own business
; I don’t claim to bet
"£500 on each race"
, or any other number bigger or smaller.
Value Is EverythingGinge I exposed you as a
Fake,Cheat and Charlatan
years ago and nothings changed,no matter what thread you contribute to you irritate someone with your patronising Crap.All this percentage Bulls*it you constantly drone on about is the most hypocritical stuff written on here.You constantly waffle on about your army of followers taking the 5/1 with Paddy Power when you make the horse a mere 4/1 so that makes it Value Crap then surprise surprise you suggest another wager at 12/1 then another at 7/1 then another at 16/1,then another at whatever price and guess what?The original 5/1 is now an Even money shot.You preach Value but all you do is destroy it.
As you are posting your wagers………60 points on blah di blah at 4/1 you are in effect putting on £300 on that horse,even though we both know you’re not in reality! Your army do the same,yeh right! they then go off to the Pub…….Hold on 3 hours later the GingerWhinger puts up another wager in the same race,this time 35 points on Blah di blah blah at 10/1,thats another £175 of your pretend money but your army have missed it.Oh no one of your army has got on because they thought they would just check in to see if numptys done his usual trick so they chuck some more hard earned cash on the Ginger T*ats confident advice.Whoa right there he’s only having another 20 points on a 14/1 chance that nobody else has stretched their own purse strings too and then No,no,no……Oh yes he’s having a saver of 4 points on at 66/1.Now anyone who takes their betting seriously knows that this type of thing is nothing more than pie in the sky,total and utter B*llshit.But hold on again,he’s only advising a saver of a saver on something at 12/1 to another 15 points!! And some on here take you seriously!
TAPK on the other hand being a legend just creates threads with the title ‘How to win £10k in 4 days’!Judging other people by your own standards again Gordie Boy.
Fake,Cheat and Charlatan
Do you ever think these things through?
You don’t understand percentages, odds and value.
Value Is EverythingGordie Boy,
Your stupidity/jealousy started just hours after I’d posted an intention to start betting professionally; something by your own admission you’d tried and failed.
https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … start=1118
You did/do not understand that working out a mythical ante-post race with tens if not hundreds of horses entered… down to just 13 in a mythical "Racing Post Trophy" race. EVERY horse entered in the race affects the odds of EVERY other horse in the race, yet you’d reduced it artificially to just 13. All the horses not mentioned in your 13 horses were going to alter those prices. It was only a "Racing Post Trophy" in your mind and just 2 of your 13 turned up at Donny!
If I remember rightly the favourite and winner Kingsbarns hadn’t been heard of at that point and was later supplemented! You were asking me to be judged on a mythical race so was not a fair contest. But may be you knew that anyway. But it did not stop you calling me a "Fake, cheat and charlatan".
You even tried to answer your own 13 runner poser by coming up with your own 100% book… only you priced it up to 147.9%.
Just proving you haven’t got a clue about odds and percentages.I even suggested a compromise.
"May be you could’ve asked or suggested (instead of demanded) something like…
Where the going is in no danger of changing (ie a going change would naturally change the prices from the time of writing)… Choose an ordinary race (that I am actually interested in betting in, so won’t be a waste of time on my part). Start working on it immediately after the final decs are known. ie around 11:00am two days before race time. I should therefore have my prices before any bookmaker has gone up. If it is only a 5 or 6 runner affair it shouldn’t take long to produce a 100% book. It would also be much easier to judge"…
Later; at
1:39pm
on 12th December 2012 I did exactly that… putting up a 100% book for the 13th December 3:20 Taunton
before ANY bookmaker or exchange
had priced it up; to prove I was not a "fake, cheat and charlatan"…
https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … start=1599
This is what I wrote:
"Hi Gord, because of no jumps racing today, I’ve had the chance to work out a race early for tomorrow.
100% book for 3:20 Taunton before any bookmakers or exchanges are up with prices:
Ciceron 2/1
Marshal Zhukov 11/4
Elenika 7/2
The Chazer 10/1
Tatispout 16/1
Wester Ross 33/1These are what I believe the horses true chances are Gord (at this time). It should NOT be seen as a betting forecast, as I am trying to find horses better than their actual chance, not predict their prices.
Like always, I’ll check the prices once bookmakers prices are known and may end up tweeking my prices. I remind you Gord, the above are to 100%, without a bookies mark up".I repeat: This came before any bookmaker or exchange priced the race!
Then, at 4:10pm the first bookmakers Ladbrokes and Victor Chandler went up with prices.
"Best prices of the two:
Ciceron 2/1
Elenika 5/2Marshal Zukhov 7/2
The Chaser 13/2
Tatispout 12/1
Wester Ross 20/1"That early Best price percentage worked out at 109.9%. My 100% book quite similar to the bookmakers odds compiler’s (especially if adding a mark up to my prices. However, one horse stood out as different. Marshal Zhukov @ 7/2 was better than my 11/4; so worth a good bet. The 7/2 did not last long, By 5:21 Marshal Zhukov was shorter than my 11/4 eventually starting the 2/1 favourite (Tatispout by then a non-runner) and won.
Did I get an apology? Nope.
You wrote previously:
"You are a CHEAT,Quite simply as I’ve proved before,you cant make a 100% Book up off your own back without prior knowledge of the Oddschecker pages.You look at the prices first on there then tweak to make you look as though you know what you are doing,therefore you are Cheating and you and everybody else knows it"!
So I proved you wrong.
Yet all I got back was:
"Ginge you got those prices from Betfair you lying B*stard"!
Have you ever tried to get prices off Betfair for a Class 3 Handicap @ 1:39pm the day before?
I even got in touch with info@betfair.com who told me:
"Further to your recent enquiry, I can advise that the markets would have opened approximately 15:00 (that’s 3:00pm Gordie) the day before the race in question, in this case 12/12/2012".
Even had the Betfair market been up at 1:39pm, early markets on betfair start by peolpe offering 1:01 etc about most horses; with an overround of 500%+. So there was no way I could have "got those prices from Betfair".
But once agin you come up with:
Ginge I exposed you as a
Fake,Cheat and Charlatan
years ago and nothings changed,
You are a
liar
.
Cormack even had to step in saying:
TAPK – there is no evidence whatsoever that GT is any kind of fake, not a shred, so can you stop the witch-hunt or wind-up, whichever it is.
Value Is EverythingGinge I exposed you as a
Fake,Cheat and Charlatan
years ago and nothings changed,no matter what thread you contribute to you irritate someone with your patronising Crap.All this percentage Bulls*it you constantly drone on about is the most hypocritical stuff written on here.You constantly waffle on about your army of followers taking the 5/1 with Paddy Power when you make the horse a mere 4/1 so that makes it Value Crap then surprise surprise you suggest another wager at 12/1 then another at 7/1 then another at 16/1,then another at whatever price and guess what?The original 5/1 is now an Even money shot.You preach Value but all you do is destroy it.
Gordie Boy,
If I did what you say:
If backing a horse @ 5/1 (a fair 16.67%) that I believe is a fair 20% 4/1 chance. So it is a3.33%
better price. If I then back a 12/1 (fair 7.69%) shot that I believe has a 10% (fair 9/1) chance… Then a 7/1 (12.5%) that I think has a 5/1 (16.67%) and a 16/1 (5.88%) shot that I think is an 11/1 (8.33%).
20 + 10 + 16.67 + 8.33 = 54.97% So my opinion of the combined chances of the horses I’ve backed is
54.97%
roughly
5/6
(54.55%).
Yet the prices taken are 16.67 + 7.69 + 12.50 + 5.88 =
42.74%
So the combined price is around
11/8
(42.11%).
Difference between 54.97 and 42.74 =
12.23%
So had I only backed the one horse @ 5/1 I’d be taking a price just
3.33%
better than my opinion of its fair chance.
Where as by backing all four horses I believe are value, if backing them all to return the same amount I’d be taking a combined price12.23%
better than my opinion of its
fair
price. It would be roughly the same as backing an 11/8 shot that I believed a fair 5/6 shot. So if my assessments of all or most of the horses are correct – you could say I am enhancing the value by backing more than one horse in a race, 12.23% better instead of just 3.33%. So am
more
likely to be
correct
that there is at least some value in the combination of bets than I would be backing just the one horse.
But
as you know, I bet with
some
main bets and
some
saver bets, so am likely to choose a couple of mains and a couple of savers. So the prices I actually take are bigger than 11/8. Just as you back a couple of main win bets and a couple of place savers.
Now; of course if my opinion about those four horses was wrong (or if most of the four opinions are wrong)… and if I was continually wrong about the prices/value in race after race after race – then I’d actually "destroy" the value and end up by losing more by backing more than one horse… But the
fact
is I make a very good
profit
thanks very much, which
must
therefore mean I am generally good at assessing prices.
It is a shame you do not make a profit Gordie.
Value Is EverythingGinge,
This is not twitter, you don’t have followers. Why would any pro gambler post up his/her selections here for others? it’s attention seeking.
Are you more worried about losing your edge or profits as you have already been banned by James and Stan and people ‘following’ your selections will not help your cause even if they are only betting 0.00001% per point.
You tell everyone who’s ready to listen about the %age of odds table, trainer form, pace angles etc you need to be more ruthless.
Also stop winding up Gord, you should be studying.Blackbeard to conquer the World
Also stop winding up Gord, you should be studying.
Nath,sometimes old Ginge needs putting in his place,he’s just getting a bit carried away with himself recently.What the silly old Ginger T*at so often forgets is this is a forum for debate,its not a betting account,not for anyone of us.He doesn’t seem to realise just because he covers every base and more in a race that the rest of us dont even put up our daily wagers.I dont bet anywhere near like old Ginge,I might have 2 or 3 wagers a week and there’s nothing on here that says I’m contracted to put them up.I occassionally do put some up but I lay far more than I back these days and compared to Gingers little marbles scattered all over the playground mine is a huge Steely about to take them out!
I’ve proved in the past that anyone can bet like Ginge and also made easy money but whereas I’m a Fly Fisher after the elusive 30lb Salmon Old Whinger is casting his trawler net in a puddle full of minnows……….How ****** boring!
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