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I dont post very often on here, but felt I had too given what happened to GW.
I know this is being said with hindsight, but as far as i’m concerned this was a tragedy waiting to happen. I couldnt believe this meeting went ahead when I saw that horses were being raced on what can only be described as a quagmire. What a disgrace.
I also think that Coolmore have got what they deserved by running a horse on it who patently wasnt suited by the dirt last year, just so they can try to earn a few fast bucks.
RIP George Washington. As for the Breeders Cup, the yanks can shove it up their fat a*ses.
Beeswing,
There are many races in the states that are run in sloppy dirt conditions, the conditions would not have warranted a cancellation of the meeting IMO. However if you are going to criticise the yanks for going ahead with the meeting, would you also be critical of asking a NH horse to run 4m+ and jump such formidable fences like the chair or beechers brook, I would say there would be more danger involved in the NH than the race meeting last night.
Why did Coolmore/Ballydoyle get what they deserve? Can you please explain this? GW did handle the dirt last year, it puzzles me how you come to the assertion he did not like it as you put it, handled and liked would be the same in my book.
After the deaths of Landseer and Horatio Nelson one or two people were quite ready to blame the stable and now with the death of George Washington you have done the same. I really would like you explain this point of view as I have some trouble understanding you view point.
JohnJ
All your arguements for not running the horse could have been used before the Arc. Soft ground, a hard season etc.
Strange as it will sound, i thought he ran well below form in the arc…and as much as anything, yesterday might have been a case of a season catching up with him. Understandable
I have no problem at all with the runs but there is a slight concern in my mind that winning the BC is put on too high a pedestal and its a pity that its not seen as being preferable for DT’s overall career to have a pop at the Hong Kong or Tokyo prizes instead, where conditions (not the weather…which obviously isnt going to predicted weeks in advance) might have been more suitable
John,
I’m well aware that there is more danger in running a horse in the Grand National, but this is a totally different ball game – GW was asked to perform in conditions which he was totally alien to. He had run on dirt last year and suffered it – the horse did not enjoy it one bit (take a look at his head carriage for one thing). To ask him to perform again in these conditions was unwise, to put it mildly.
Unfortunately, GW was treated as nothing more than an ‘asset’ by Coolmore, who were always going to run him no matter what. And by the way, I have not and never have had an axe to grind against Ballydoyle. I just think this was a shameful way to treat a brilliant racehorse.
Agree Clivex
The HK option may become more and more appealing as time passes…
For my money this was the worst BC in living memory. Of course the sloppy dirt and soft ground didn’t help, but the whole beauty of the BC in the past has been the anticipation of the European big guns taking on the best of the Americans (whether they actually go on to deliver on the day is relatively immaterial ).
This year the only champion we sent over was Dylan Thomas and he had had so many battles this season that the very act of running him was in a way demeaning to the concept of the Breeders Cup…
Looking at the entries for the HK December meeting it looks odds-on that the 4 International races will all be superior in quality (and in interest as they will include Australian and Japanese contenders) to any of the BC turf races. How long will it be before these races become genuinely acknowledged as the " World Championships" of Turf racing?
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For my money this was the worst BC in living memory…..
Looking at the entries for the HK December meeting it looks odds-on that the 4 International races will all be superior in quality (and in interest as they will include Australian and Japanese contenders) to any of the BC turf races. How long will it be before these races become genuinely acknowledged as the " World Championships" of Turf racing?
that’s what I thought too……..and the sooner the better.
Beeswing,
completely agree with what you say, but I think we’re in the minority
For my money this was the worst BC in living memory. Of course the sloppy dirt and soft ground didn’t help, but the whole beauty of the BC in the past has been the anticipation of the European big guns taking on the best of the Americans (whether they actually go on to deliver on the day is relatively immaterial ).
It was a shocker in terms of the European challenge, absolutely, and George’s demise just compounded that. However I thought the dirt races were far more form-ful than the results provided last year by the biased track where all but the Classic was won by the horse drawn one.
Hong Kong have done a brilliant job with their December meeting and deserve it to be patronised by the very best turf horses.
I find it surprising that people are stating the Breeders Cup was a step to far yet point to Hong Kong as a better option. Dylan Thomas has been back in training since Feburary..raced since April and it would be a massive ask to keep him on the go all the way to Hong Kong. Whats more Dylan Thomas is retiring this year. Before the breeding season starts ideally a let down period and then preparing for the season ahead is desired. Sending him all the way to Hong Kong effects such planning.
Hong Kong is improving but for me the Breeders Cup is the best of the meetings.
It was a shocker in terms of the European challenge, absolutely, and George’s demise just compounded that. However I thought the dirt races were far more form-ful than the results provided last year by the biased track where all but the Classic was won by the horse drawn one.
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Agree about the Euro Challenge Gareth and although a tad disappointed Street Sense could not return to his KD, Preakness form, i thought the Dirt races were crackers
Strange as it will sound, i thought he ran well below form in the arc…and as much as anything, yesterday might have been a case of a season catching up with him. Understandable
You have to take into account the ground and pace though as well Clive.. seems pretty clear that the ground was genuinely soft yesterday and the pace was vritually the polar opposite to that of the Arc (believe they went a mile in 1:19 or so yesterday)..
Not saying that you are wrong btw, as he was certainly under pressure a long way out..
As for those who say he shouldn’t have ran because of the ground, that comment could apply to most of the field before the race.. indeed, even English Channel’s connections wern’t sure he would handle the ground!
I find it surprising that people are stating the Breeders Cup was a step to far yet point to Hong Kong as a better option
More time to recover from the Arc is one obvious reason. Others have managed this busy schedule and you have said yourself Aidan that he is built to take the racing
More pertinently is the surface and also the fact that Sha tin is 10f as opposed to 7f cirumference
Truth is Hong Kong/Dubai etc has never been that high on Coolmore/Ballydoyles priorties I guess.
Beeswing,
His performance in last years BC would go against your argument about how he handled dirt IMO. He did not handle the slop last night, but can you blame Ballydoyle for sending him out to race on it?
JohnJ
The debate on the state of the ground at Monmouth is one that will not have to be re-argued. Apparantly, this is the last BC meeting to be run on dirt. All future meetings will be run on polytrack, including next year at Santa Anita.
Although I suspect you might be proved right Scribbles, it’s by no means certain that Churchill Downs and Belmont will go to an artificial surface any time soon and they’re two of the cornerstone courses the the BC uses.
The attrition rate in dirt racing in the US has obviously been unacceptable, hence why such a huge shift towards artificial surfaces has taken place.
But here’s a little bit of perspective.
In the 24 Breeders Cup meetings, 9 horses have now died during races.
3 of these were in turf races: Spanish Fern (2000 F&M Turf), Landseer (2002 Mile) & Funfair (2005 Mile).
The other 6 were in dirt races: Go For Wand (1990 Distaff), Mr Nickerson (1990 Sprint), Shaker Knit (1990 Sprint), Mr Brooks (1992 Sprint), Pine Island (2006 Distaff) & George Washington (2007 Classic).
So in 122 Breeders Cup races on dirt, there have been 6 fatalities.
That’s as many fatalities as there were on the Thursday of Cheltenham last year.
For anyone who is interested there’s a radio interview that AOB did this morning on Irish radio here
http://www.rte.ie/2fm/robbieirwin/
it starts about 5 mins into the stream
Apparantly, this is the last BC meeting to be run on dirt. All future meetings will be run on polytrack, including next year at Santa Anita.
BC CEO Greg Avioli denied this is april when Oak Tree @ SA for 2008 was announced.
This is surely down to the rivalry that exists with Godolphin? Not so much why they very often choose not to send runners to Hong Kong, but certainly for Dubai. There was talk of Dylan Thomas going to Dubai for the meeting this year. He’s the only Ballydoyle horse I can recall to have that put forward as an option.
Powerscourt ran in Dubai the other year. Ironically, it helped fuel the feud after disparaging comments made by certain people about the representative that Coolmore sent out with him.
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