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I’d love to see another G1 sprint at Royal Ascot
. You know, a sprint with a
diamond-studded line up
of G1 winners including G2 winners who’re ready for the upgrade.
The King’s Stand has always felt like a G2 sprint to me
. Maybe it’s something to do with not enough elite sprinters taking part and too many inferior sprinters (G3,Listed) to make up the numbers.
By putting on a Group 1 sprint for 3 year olds both Kings Stand and Jubilee have now been made easier to win, with fewer top quality animals taking part. So will the Kings Stand now feel like a Group 3 to you GOR, and the Jubilee a Group 2?
…And a Group 1 sprint for 3 year olds will be a vastly inferior race.
You seem to be arguing against yourself there.
Got nothing against a 3 year old Group 1 sprint, but why does it have to be at Royal Ascot? Why dumb down the two existing races (and Jersey)? Why can’t it be earlier and then the generations meet at Royal Ascot?
Value Is EverythingSeems a sensible move, apart from the horses sold abroad, even when a 3 year old has been successful having been forced to run against their elders in the top sprints like Dream Ahead & Oasis Dream, they have been retired at the end of their 3 year old career.
Could encourage horses like that to continue as 4 year olds having been aimed at the G1 3 yo race at Royal Ascot, that would be good for racing.
So you don’t want the generations to clash at all Eddie?
Dream Ahead did not clash with his elders until the July Cup, that would happen under these rules too. So it won’t encourage 3 year olds to remain in training.
Value Is EverythingSo you don’t want the generations to clash at all Eddie?
Dream Ahead did not clash with his elders until the July Cup, that would happen under these rules too. So it won’t encourage 3 year olds to remain in training.
That seems a bit simplistic Gingertipster, not sure what happened with Dream Ahead should be the basis of all thinking on the subject.
It could lead to a more patient approach as a 3 year old if the option is there.You don’t want generations to clash Gingertipster, as you support the BHA’s illogical approach in giving preference to older horses of lower quality than 3 year olds in races like The Ebor.
This division has been pants for years so it is a waste of time to throw more money at mediocrity.
I would be more inclined to demote the status of the existing races which are increasingly pushing towards glorified handicaps – 1/4 the first four anyone?
By putting on a Group 1 sprint for 3 year olds both Kings Stand and Jubilee have now been made easier to win, with fewer top quality animals taking part. So will the Kings Stand now feel like a Group 3 to you GOR, and the Jubilee a Group 2?
…And a Group 1 sprint for 3 year olds will be a vastly inferior race.
You seem to be arguing against yourself there.
Got nothing against a 3 year old Group 1 sprint, but why does it have to be at Royal Ascot? Why dumb down the two existing races (and Jersey)? Why can’t it be earlier and then the generations meet at Royal Ascot?
I think you’re missing the point Ginge. I’m on about a G1 sprint that accepts horses (regardless of their age) who have proven G1 and G2 wins. Royal Ascot is one of the major highlights of the Flat season and deserves a better sprint IMO.
Of this year’s King’s Stand line up of 16 runners … 12 of them had never won a G2/G3! Hardly G1 material is it?
Presumably this would have been primarily contested by Due Diligence, Hot Streak and Astaire with perhaps the French sending something over. Due Diligence and Hot Streak both placed in Gr1 Sprints against elders so arguably both up to G1 sprinting standard
I’m sure it’ll attract plenty entries and prove popular in that respect.
I’m not sure it’s not another case of pushing the ‘festival’ envelope in the same way that Cheltenham have done, almost certainly weakening other established races. Maybe they feel, in teh sprinting division, there is enough to go around with big entries/fields already almost guaranteed for the existing and new race.
I’m kind of in the Drone camp though. Restricting an existing early season pattern sprint to three year olds and upgrading to G1 to provide a)opportunity and b)a stepping stone to all-aged Ascot sprints. Then the Kings Stand would become a sort of Eclipse for sprinters, with the seasons Gr1 winning sprinters from the generations meeting for the first time in a championship race.
I also think it should be a proper sprint, i.e. over 5 furlongs, to mitigate the obvious clash with the Jersey.
I do not see why a 3yo 6f Group 1 is seen as detrimental to a 3yo 7f Group 3, particularly over Ascot’s stiffish straight, as IMO they require horses with somewhat different characteristics: the 6f G1 type a jolly good young sprinter whose ‘class’ enables him/her to see out the trip, the 7f G3 type a relatively second-rate horse who didn’t get a flat mile in top company but is fast enough to get a stiff 7f in relatively third-rate company
Agree about the need for a 3yo 5f G1: that is a specialist distance if not quite so remote from 6/7f,, then nearly so
Nunthorpe next week…nice
Be nice for it to be the "specialised distance" of 5f Drone, however, possibly too specialised. Wouldn’t be as many 3 year olds capable of top class form at 5f than there is 6f; therefore less competitive.
Value Is EverythingNunthorpe next week…nice
With four 2yos declared at this stage including Hootennay.
Would be good to see a 2yo win as only Lyric Fantasy and Kingsgate Native have in the last 20 years. Cue another weight-for-age debate if one does.
Borderlescott is also declared.
Borderlescott is not a 2yo.
Mike
I agree with your analysis Drone but for the trainer or owner with a real Jersey hopeful, it’ll be very tempting with a horse of that ilk to take a shot at a Group 1 with a likely high-value consolation if placed rather than take your chance in what is usually a very competitive Group 3.
Nunthorpe next week…nice
With four 2yos declared at this stage including Hootennay.
Would be good to see a 2yo win as only Lyric Fantasy and Kingsgate Native have in the last 20 years. Cue another weight-for-age debate if one does.
Borderlescott is also declared.
Borderlescott is not a 2yo.
I ‘was there’ when lil’ young Lyric Fantasy won her Nunthorpe, with the equally diminutive Michael Roberts putting up 1lb overweight at 7-11, if memory servesThink I’ve played this game before: name the only other British 2yo+ Pattern race?
Think I’ve played this game before: name the only other British 2yo+ Pattern race?
Vernons Sprint Trophy?
Mike
Just what the "golden triangle" of SE England need, ANOTHER GP1 race! Wouldn’t do to think that racing fans anywhere else might like to see top animals a bit nearer home. If this had been earmarked for Ayr, say, or Chepstow, would it attract an inferior field? Or why not run it at a different track each year?
Ascot has certainly enjoyed its share of fortune, more than its share, in the allocation of gradings and races since its much-publicised investment.
The southern bias. Now there IS a topic.
Many of the top 3yo sprinters of the past were essentially Classic aspirants who didn’t stay the trip and were dropped back in trip. They were not speedy 2yo’s who were always earmarked for a second season sprinting career. The switch rarely happens these days but the July Cup provides an early enough opportunity to test the water.
Self-interest comments appear to be stacking up by the day.
Apparently, the bookmakers want to drop the Chesham and keep the Buckingham Palace. What a surprise, perhaps every race could be a 30 runner handicap run on the straight course. What a fantastic spectacle that would be? George Margerson has also thrown his weight behind the idea. Now which race is George most likely to have a runner in?
Think I’ve played this game before: name the only other British 2yo+ Pattern race?
Vernons Sprint Trophy?
Good to know you too inhabit the time warp where it is forever 1980 Betshiilings
A good answer actually but – and I had to check this – the Haydock Sprint Cup was originally for 2yo+ when inaugurated in the 1960s, later became 3yo+ and for a five-year period between 1989 and 1994 was again 2yo+, since when it has been 3yo+
The answer I’m looking for is the 5f Scarbrough Stakes (Listed) run at the St Leger meeting
The Prix de L’Abbaye is also 2yo+
Dunno if there’s any others elsewhere in the European Pattern
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