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but certainly didn’t get it on heavy
What absolute nonsense.
Nonsense Ken?? ‘Frankel’ cruised up to ‘Cirrus des aigles’ at the furlong pole says the Form Book but it doesn’t go on to say ‘Stayed on’ at the very least,never mind ‘Ran on well’ or ‘Impressive’ and thats what our eyes told us at the furlong pole,they certainly didn’t at the line where a mere 13/4 was the gap with another 4l back to the 126 rated ‘Nathaniel’! Had that been a handicap run over 11/2m Nathaniel would have beaten ‘Frankel’ getting a stone off him,now thats not what you would want to see from ‘The Greatest Horse of all time’ they give weight and a beating to quality horses too!
Thwack, whack, trumpety trump. Thwack, whack, bing bang bosh.
The sound of Gordon banging his little drum.
It all began…….
back when Frankel was a 2 year old. Poor old Gord had him down as all hype!
Thought he would get trounced in the Dewhurst by Dream Ahead The Ante Post King didn’t back the biggest Ante Post Snip this century. The man who prides himself on spotting talent from an early age completely missed the most obvious one there has ever been Then when Frankel put DA in his place Gord told us with supreme confidence that he was just a precocious 2 year old whose bubble would burst
Then when he blasted away his rivals in the most exhilirating fashion any of us have seen he told us that his temperament was going to let him down sooner or later
Then when he continued to produce staggering performance after staggering performance poor old Gord started running out of ways to save face and so started this "he never won over a mile and a half" drum that he will bang to the day he dies.
It is the biggest misjudgement of his racing life but rather than just taking it on the chin or leaving the forum as the other doubters have done, he continues to embarrass himself. Your heavy going comment is pathetic and not worthy of you. You are better than that mate. I would not believe you of all people could have the gall to write it especially after what you said the days after that epic and heroic Champion Stakes win over the mud machine CDA.
Frankel proved himself beyond question but you will never accept it because your enormous ego will not allow it.
You are a great guy Gord and this is not in the least bit personal but why don’t you just finally give it a rest for chrissake?!
All three handicappers now agree with what the owner of Dancing Brave has always known. As wonderful as that magnificent Harwood beast was he was not as good as the Wonderhorse.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
TAPK ,
Brigadier Gerard did not win an Arc, although he did win the King George over 12 furlongs at Ascot, even though he was never in a month of Sundays a mile and a half horse.
His reputation remains unsullied, and rightly so.
Frankel may or may not have stayed the distance; Sir Henry thinks not. I tend to agree. I think Frankel was essentially a great miler who was equally comfortable at a mile and a quarter. That said, he most certainly had the ability to win an Arc: whether he possessed the stamina to do so is another thing. We will die not knowing.
I do get your point though about classing horses as "the greatest ever" – especially when said horse has not won over one of the recognised championship distances.
I agree with Ian Balding who said that each distance should probably have its own champion. The Brigadier beat his Mill Reef at a mile, but said Balding ( and I agree ), Mill Reef would have beaten him over twelve furlongs. So, which was better ?
Dayjur is by far the best sprinter I have seen and Sea Bird is obviously the best mile and a half horse I have ever clapped eyes on.
Others may, and are entitled to disagree. It’s "not an exact science " after all. Can we really say that Usain Bolt is the best athlete of all time. No, we cannot – that would be silly. The best sprinter, yes… well, you get my drift.
The debate will never cease and people’s opinions on their favourites invariably remain constant and seldom ever open to persuasion.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Thwack, whack, trumpety trump. Thwack, whack, bing bang bosh.
The sound of Gordon banging his little drum.
It all began…….
back when Frankel was a 2 year old. Poor old Gord had him down as all hype!
Thought he would get trounced in the Dewhurst by Dream Ahead The Ante Post King didn’t back the biggest Ante Post Snip this century. The man who prides himself on spotting talent from an early age completely missed the most obvious one there has ever been Then when Frankel put DA in his place Gord told us with supreme confidence that he was just a precocious 2 year old whose bubble would burst
Then when he blasted away his rivals in the most exhilirating fashion any of us have seen he told us that his temperament was going to let him down sooner or later
Then when he continued to produce staggering performance after staggering performance poor old Gord started running out of ways to save face and so started this "he never won over a mile and a half" drum that he will bang to the day he dies.
It is the biggest misjudgement of his racing life but rather than just taking it on the chin or leaving the forum as the other doubters have done, he continues to embarrass himself. Your heavy going comment is pathetic and not worthy of you. You are better than that mate. I would not believe you of all people could have the gall to write it especially after what you said the days after that epic and heroic Champion Stakes win over the mud machine CDA.
Frankel proved himself beyond question but you will never accept it because your enormous ego will not allow it.
You are a great guy Gord and this is not in the least bit personal but why don’t you just finally give it a rest for chrissake?!
All three handicappers now agree with what the owner of Dancing Brave has always known. As wonderful as that magnificent Harwood beast was he was not as good as the Wonderhorse.
Excellent post Jonni, I couldn’t agree more!
I believe one of the quotes that will have you in stitches
To all those dreaming about Frankel winning next years 2000gns,
Dream Ahead
! This fellow has everything you want to see in a 3yo that Frankel lacks! 2/1 Frankel, 6/1 Dream Ahead,i know which one i would be on!
Top of page 16
https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … 3381&hilitThwack, whack, trumpety trump. Thwack, whack, bing bang bosh.
The sound of Gordon banging his little drum.
It all began…….
back when Frankel was a 2 year old. Poor old Gord had him down as all hype!
Thought he would get trounced in the Dewhurst by Dream Ahead The Ante Post King didn’t back the biggest Ante Post Snip this century. The man who prides himself on spotting talent from an early age completely missed the most obvious one there has ever been
Then when Frankel put DA in his place Gord told us with supreme confidence that he was just a precocious 2 year old whose bubble would burst
Then when he blasted away his rivals in the most exhilirating fashion any of us have seen he told us that his temperament was going to let him down sooner or later
Then when he continued to produce staggering performance after staggering performance poor old Gord started running out of ways to save face and so started this "he never won over a mile and a half" drum that he will bang to the day he dies.It is the biggest misjudgement of his racing life but rather than just taking it on the chin or leaving the forum as the other doubters have done, he continues to embarrass himself. Your heavy going comment is pathetic and not worthy of you. You are better than that mate. I would not believe you of all people could have the gall to write it especially after what you said the days after that epic and heroic Champion Stakes win over the mud machine CDA.
Frankel proved himself beyond question but you will never accept it because your enormous ego will not allow it.
You are a great guy Gord and this is not in the least bit personal but why don’t you just finally give it a rest for chrissake?!All three handicappers now agree with what the owner of Dancing Brave has always known. As wonderful as that magnificent Harwood beast was he was not as good as the Wonderhorse.
That was an Assassination of me Joni!
TAPK ,
Brigadier Gerard did not win an Arc, although he did win the King George over 12 furlongs at Ascot, even though he was never in a month of Sundays a mile and a half horse.
His reputation remains unsullied, and rightly so.
Agreed ‘Himself’ but at least ‘The Brigadier’ gave us the opportunity to assess his greatness by attempting the trip and that is my biggest gripe!
Thwack, whack, trumpety trump. Thwack, whack, bing bang bosh.
The sound of Gordon banging his little drum.
It all began…….
back when Frankel was a 2 year old. Poor old Gord had him down as all hype!
Thought he would get trounced in the Dewhurst by Dream Ahead The Ante Post King didn’t back the biggest Ante Post Snip this century. The man who prides himself on spotting talent from an early age completely missed the most obvious one there has ever been
Then when Frankel put DA in his place Gord told us with supreme confidence that he was just a precocious 2 year old whose bubble would burst
Then when he blasted away his rivals in the most exhilirating fashion any of us have seen he told us that his temperament was going to let him down sooner or later
Then when he continued to produce staggering performance after staggering performance poor old Gord started running out of ways to save face and so started this "he never won over a mile and a half" drum that he will bang to the day he dies.It is the biggest misjudgement of his racing life but rather than just taking it on the chin or leaving the forum as the other doubters have done, he continues to embarrass himself. Your heavy going comment is pathetic and not worthy of you. You are better than that mate. I would not believe you of all people could have the gall to write it especially after what you said the days after that epic and heroic Champion Stakes win over the mud machine CDA.
Frankel proved himself beyond question but you will never accept it because your enormous ego will not allow it.
You are a great guy Gord and this is not in the least bit personal but why don’t you just finally give it a rest for chrissake?!All three handicappers now agree with what the owner of Dancing Brave has always known. As wonderful as that magnificent Harwood beast was he was not as good as the Wonderhorse.
That was an Assassination of me Joni!
I sit here blowing the smoke off my pistol.
Leave my Frankel alone if you know what’s good for ya!!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
but certainly didn’t get it on heavy
What absolute nonsense.
Nonsense Ken?? ‘Frankel’ cruised up to ‘Cirrus des aigles’ at the furlong pole says the Form Book but it doesn’t go on to say ‘Stayed on’ at the very least,never mind ‘Ran on well’ or ‘Impressive’ and thats what our eyes told us at the furlong pole,they certainly didn’t at the line where a mere 13/4 was the gap with another 4l back to the 126 rated ‘Nathaniel’! Had that been a handicap run over 11/2m Nathaniel would have beaten ‘Frankel’ getting a stone off him,now thats not what you would want to see from ‘The Greatest Horse of all time’ they give weight and a beating to quality horses too!
Gord, I’m not arguing about whether he would have beaten so and so over 1m 1/2 giving weight etc. I’m not even arguing whether he would have stayed 1 1/2m as we never saw him race at that distance. I’m not arguing about the Greatest Ever tag as that is always going to be based on personal opinion. I am arguing your contention that he didn’t stay 1m 2f in the Champion Stakes. My own eyes clearly saw he did. He ran the last mile, going round a bend and on softer ground in a faster time than Excelebration ran his mile race in. I don’t know what the official formbook said but here are the comments from the ATR and Sporting Life
‘ridden and stayed on strongly to assert final 100 yardsrace report’
. He stayed alright
Its Human nature to ask questions,we all do it.Some questions can be awkward but that depends on who’s asking and who’s answering.The weighing room at every Racecourse in the country is a hive of information but what comes out of such places suddenly turns to misinformation for obvious reasons again depending on who’s saying what to whom.The most commonly asked question to Tom Queally since the retirement of
Frankel
‘inside the weighing room’ is ‘Would ‘Frankel’ have won the Arc’? Tom being the diplomat of diplomats gives the same answer everytime………….depending on who’s asking the question! Whats said in the Weighing room stays in the weighing room!
The sad thing is that outside racing Frankel did not receive the recognition he deserved, mainly due to the lack of ambition in his racing programme.
The sad thing is that outside racing Frankel did not receive the recognition he deserved, mainly due to the lack of ambition in his racing programme.
Not true. All my mates knew of him by the end and none of them are into their racing. My friends mum had never watched a race in her life til Frankel came along. She was a huge fan. He drew record crowds everywhere he went and brought thousands of new fans to the sport.
How on earth would his racing programme affect his recognition outside racing anyway? Most people don’t know an Arc from a Champion or a Sussex from an Eclipse.
If they really had no ambition he would have been retired at 3 and he would never have run on heavy ground. He ran as a 4 year old. He ran 14 times ffs! Compares favourably with all the other greats.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
My dear Boz,I don’t believe that the reference to Bart Cummings made by you proves anything. His comments were made long after SYT had arrived in Europe and in fact it was after he (SYT) had returned to Australia.
My dear Boz,I don’t believe that the reference to Bart Cummings made by you proves anything. His comments were made long after SYT had arrived in Europe and in fact it was after he (SYT) had returned to Australia.
"Perfection on four legs, I couldn’t put it any better than that."
"You don’t get any better than him, he is the finest, most genuine horse I have ever trained. And I’ve trained more than I can remember."
"He was one of the best horses we have had."
"If he had stayed here, he could have won four Cox Plates, not two. He was the kindest, most wonderful horse I’ve ever trained."
Andy, the challenge was to find Bart Cummings hyping up SYT, not at any particular stage of his career, whether it was during or after he had him. Besides, it was all rather tongue in cheek anyway, I didn’t really want to become embroiled in the row.
By the way what do you make of this statement from the RP?
In October it was revealed the 141 allotted to Dancing Brave for his brilliant Prix de l’Arc de Triomphe success in 1986 was in part awarded as a present for retiring handicapper David Swannell
Bizarre
Does this mean that had Mr Swannell not been retiring Dancing Brave would have been rated x pounds lower? Phil Smith said today that this was incorrect. Swannel retired in 1981 and the horse in question was Shergar.
TAPK might be right.
Frankel may not have stayed the trip in the Champion Stakes on heavy ground. Because the performance was not his best. As Gord says, Frankel came there to win his race yet did not go away at the end like he’d done in the International or Queen Anne. So it could well be Frankel did not truly stay.Or it could be he was over the top for the season. The Dewhurst on his last juvenile start wasn’t so good either. However, the QEII victory on good-firm was his best 3 year old performance.
More likely he’s a better horse on a sound surface (good or firmer). His three races on a soft surface being:
Debut in maiden at Newmarket on soft. Impressive yes, and did beat Nathaniel, but neither was anywhere near what they became.
Dewhurst on Good-soft. Not as visually impressive and did not produce as good a Timeform rating as the Royal Lodge. Although possibly due to being bumped and a little free early.
And Champion Stakes. 1m2f on heavy not ideal. Unable to use blistering speed. Although the fact he gave away a lot of ground at the start should be remembered. But it was not to be. At least we saw Frankel at 4, which is more than can be said of Dancing Brave or Sea The Stars.
Frankel had an absolutely perfect racing action. One that should be far better suited by a firm rather than soft surface. To expect a horse to produce his very best every time is sheer folly. No other horse put up so many outstanding performances as Frankel.
Even if not truly staying 1m2f on heavy (or inconvenienced by the ground)… It says a lot that Frankel could win without coming under serious pressure under unsuitable conditions – against the second best European racehorse under his ideal conditions.
What is strange about TAPK’s words is he states Frankel didn’t stay in the Champion, yet believes he should’ve run in the Arc.
I am glad Frankel did not run in the Arc. It’s a rough race and on soft ground was highly unlikely to stay.
It would’ve been great to see him race on as a 5 years old. Where I believe they were considering the Lockinge, Prince Of Wales, King George, International and Breeders Cup Classic.
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