The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

‘Flogarose’ Jockey jumps off!!

Home Forums Horse Racing ‘Flogarose’ Jockey jumps off!!

Viewing 17 posts - 18 through 34 (of 59 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #478978
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 764

    Stewards Report read:

    the Stewards noted his explanation that the mare had taken a step left towards the rails causing him to become unbalanced and unseated.

    That’s exactly the time and place where you need B*llshit man…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lRIQGU2RRk

    #478983
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34704

    I like to give the benefit of the doubt in any case like this. But can not believe what I just saw. :shock:

    I didn’t see the race live, but have replayed the section time and time again. Cockburn doesn’t seem to make any attempt to remain in the saddle. Concentrating on the horse alone, I see absolutely no evidence of a false step or sharp move to the side. It really does look as if Cockburn moves his leg deliberately.

    Did at first wonder why would he do this on the flat, why not at a jump? But he was (to my eyes) never previously able to come off in a position where jockeys could take avoiding action.

    It is also (conveniently?) at a time where maximum profit could be made by in-running layers. Had layers got involved earlier they’d have to take a worse price. The horse was going well and had just gone clear. Have betfair paid out?

    It is at best an incompetent ride and at worst criminal. Should be sent back to the Racing School for a comprehensive course.

    It reminds me of the Fontwell, Ice Saint / Sean Fox case. I was there that day and commented prior to the race at styrrup length Fox was riding at. Jumped the fence seemingly ok and yet got "unbalanced" in a remarkably similar way as yesterday’s events.

    Hope trainers and owners react by not giving Cockburn rides.

    Value Is Everything
    #478987
    Avatar photoBurroughhill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1635

    I’m maybe blinkered in that I like to watch all racing assuming it’s straight and above board, and I think most of the time it must be. But I can’t see how this was anything other than a deliberate unseat however you look at it. He lifted his leg over the horse! If he’d wanted to stay on he could have sat down in the saddle, but he deliberately stood up in the saddle and simply dismounted. Dodgy as hell. I hope he gets the book thrown at him.

    #478992
    Avatar photoWoolf121
    Participant
    • Total Posts 537

    It’s endemic in the sport now, punish Cockburn of course but there is entrenched criminality in racing and it’s not limited to All Weather dross.

    #478995
    Avatar photoricky lake
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 3003

    Folks , it looks a bit questionable for sure …but then again I see the same thing in a different guise on the aw all through the winter …yet nobody utters a word

    does someone have to jump off a horse to finally get your attention ??

    Thing is , this incident will be brushed swiftly under the carpet

    next case

    :mrgreen: ….Racing is pure in parts . ….but the dross rules

    imo

    #478996
    Avatar photoyeats
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3728

    Looked like he lost his balance to me, like any profession jockeys will vary enormously in quality and ability.

    Where AP wouldn’t have flinched from a similar small jink Cockburn fell off.

    Think it would be very difficult to prove someone jumped off a horse without hard evidence.

    Like many others some years ago I was convinced Sean Fox had jumped off his horse but he was exonerated of any wrong doing.

    #479000
    Avatar phototbracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1453

    Maybe he did jump, it is after all the oldest trick in the book for the NH boys to get a horse beaten.

    However, I thought it was quite clear the horse took a sharp step right off the turn and then left back inside, skilled horsemen jockeys are yes, but it doesn’t take much to fall off a horse.

    This was evident the day before at Windsor when David Probert fell off Chinotto in similarly easy fashion in the 6.30.

    When someone falls forward there is some kind of chance of grabbing hold of the neck etc as we have seen. When your balance goes and you are heading sideways, there is nothing much left to hang onto other than dangling off a lead and ending up being dragged across a field by half a tonne of horse.

    #479001
    Avatar photobetlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2808

    My thoughts are:

    1. Cockburn appeared to step off the horse. He is not some wet-behind-the-ears novice, he has won 21 races from 291 rides in the last few seasons. He can clearly ride. His actions were very suspicious.

    2. Who benefits? If this is the mooted "in-running lay" coup, this can be cleared up by Betfair via it’s Memorandum of Understanding with the BHA. Was there a large amount of money traded on Flogarose in-running? Was it an amount regarded as abnormal? Betfair is historically more than happy to flag up such practices and there’s been nothing of any note from them. It should be noted that Betfair is the only outlet where such a coup could have taken place.

    3. When Cockburn steps out of the saddle, he does so into the path of oncoming horses. This makes me wonder if it was just incompetence rather than plot after all. Who in their right mind would risk serious injury (or death) for anything less than several million pounds?! If this was some sort of coup, Cockburn is quite simply insane.

    4. As ever, this all comes down to "follow the money". Betfair could tell us now if there was anything abnormal regarding betting patterns on the race – it’s in their interest to do so and as previously stated, they always have in the past. Howver any punter betting at the time with the market open would also easily be able to tell us. Yet nobody has.

    All in all, a very strange occurence.

    Mike

    #479002
    Avatar photobetlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2808

    …but then again I see the same thing in a different guise on the aw all through the winter …yet nobody utters a word

    does someone have to jump off a horse to finally get your attention ??

    But you never give us any

    facts

    Ricky! How on earth are we meant to engage with you when you just talk in back-of-the-hand whispers??

    Give us some times and dates of suspicious races, horses, jockeys etc on the AW and I’d be happy to engage with you as I’m sure would many others.

    Until you do this, frankly it’s just impossible.

    Mike

    #479004
    Avatar photoBurroughhill
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1635

    Excellent, intelligent posts Betlarge! While it did look as if he jumped off, you do wonder why any jockey would knowingly fall into the path of a bunch of galloping horses only a length or two behind, where they’d have very little time to avoid him.
    All very strange.

    #479005
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 764

    Maybe it’s a repeat of the Malaysian Airlines pilot

    #479007
    Avatar photoricky lake
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 3003

    Mike , I will for sure , I know the culprits now

    Next season I will keep a spread sheet ., showing , weight of money, drift before the off , and name specific instances where bent races are run …you can then judge for yourself

    I will only show the glaringly obvious ones

    The Bha wont want to know ….after all the show must go on …

    Then you can engage all you like , but punters will have done their dough , nothing will happen , life will go on , after all losing is what keeps racing’s coffers topped up

    cheers

    imo

    #479023
    Avatar photoThe Ante-Post King
    Participant
    • Total Posts 8697

    Maybe he did jump, it is after all the oldest trick in the book for the NH boys to get a horse beaten.

    However, I thought it was quite clear the horse took a sharp step right off the turn and then left back inside, skilled horsemen jockeys are yes, but it doesn’t take much to fall off a horse.

    This was evident the day before at Windsor when David Probert fell off Chinotto in similarly easy fashion in the 6.30.

    When someone falls forward there is some kind of chance of grabbing hold of the neck etc as we have seen. When your balance goes and you are heading sideways, there is nothing much left to hang onto other than dangling off a lead and ending up being dragged across a field by half a tonne of horse.

    Fair comments tb but its human nature,instinct in fact to try and stay on board a horse and when someone does go out the side door there’s generally a few heart in mouth moments for us the spectator watching anxiously as the jockey falls ungracefully to the deck.This guy literally removes his left leg from the stirrup and steps very graciously off the horse,now had this been an accident you can bet your last dollar Guy Cockburn would have done his best to stay aboard.Why? Because he was in a very strong position to actually win the race.He made No attempt to stay on whatsoever,it was as though the horse was just about to leap off a cliff and off he pops!In 30yrs of watching Horseracing this is in my top 3 of all time Non-Trying.Fallons still No1.

    #479024
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34704

    Good post Gord, apart from the final line.

    Value Is Everything
    #479025
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 34704

    3. When Cockburn steps out of the saddle, he does so into the path of oncoming horses. This makes me wonder if it was just incompetence rather than plot after all. Who in their right mind would risk serious injury (or death) for anything less than several million pounds?! If this was some sort of coup, Cockburn is quite simply insane.

    Mike

    Did he though?
    You could ask why any conditional would risk serious injury or death by riding in any jumps race.
    The horse had just gone clear, there was ample time for those in behind to avoid him, a minimal risk. I saw no evidence of him trying to remain in the saddle, in fact completely the opposite.

    Value Is Everything
    #479031
    Avatar photobetlarge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2808

    Did he though?
    You could ask why any conditional would risk serious injury or death by riding in any jumps race.

    Indeed you could. But that is of no relevance.

    If you think throwing yourself off a racing horse into the path of others is something that engenders ‘minimal risk’, you are clearly a adrenalin junkie of the most extreme sort! I would consider such behaviour likely to place the jockey himself – and those following – in extreme danger.

    I also saw no evidence of him trying to remain in the saddle, which is why I find it such a strange occurrence. And also why I don’t have the answers that seemingly everyone else does.

    Mike

    #479032
    Avatar photostevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8241

    .This guy literally removes his left leg from the stirrup and steps very graciously off the horse

    The only thing missing was?

    a) Unrolling a rope ladder before descending the rungs to safety?

    b) A Frankie Dettori flying dismount?

    c) A slight pause, a wave and a "Hi Mum" to camera before pulling the parachute cord?

    Answers on a postcard.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

Viewing 17 posts - 18 through 34 (of 59 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.