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probably like most people here i love horse racing although my first love is flat racing,the best races that come to mind strangely enough are the titanic battles of arkle and mill house,then horses like brigadier gerard and mill reef converted me to the flat,but any class racing on both codes should get horse racing fans pulses going.
Just the flat – turf only for me.
Got little or no interest in NH racing. And that is convenient because I’m a hardcore PL team supporter. There isn’t enough w/e time to do both football and racing.
There you go, Aristo, a veritable Mrs Miggins’ pie shop!
Wouldn’t keep Billy Bunter going for long though.
From many racegoer/punters point of view the problem with the flat is the real stars (not that Yeats is not a real star) disappear so quickly. Zarkava, Ravens Pass etc have gone already but Kauto Star Denman Master Minded have been here and will be here year after year.
Long relationships such as the ones between fans of Arkle Desert Orchid and Red Rum are what these people including myself love.
We are very sentimantal cratures and as someone said recently "They will follow their fav horses over a cliff". They can follow their heroes for years and many people love NH racing for that reason.
Not much wrong with either game but as my girlfriend says longer is better.
It was actually worse than that UM – I was at Thurles yesterday so I saw all that happened. The fall was horriffic and it was not until after the race was over that they turned up with the screens. Then whne the screens were up – and this is something I shall never forget – the filly actually leapt right up in the air, flew out from behind the screens before collapsing again.
…gruesome…but thanks for telling us about it Paul.
Flat 6 – NH 0
Cheltenham better be good.Used to like the flat when I was a kid – went to school a few hundred yards from York and used to go down after school in the 80s and get in free for the last couple.
But I gradually lost interest, and now hardly follow it. Much prefer the Jumps. I think three reasons I fell out of love with the flat were:
The end of calendar definition between seasons
The rise of AW which holds no interest for me
Domination by Coolmore/GodolphinMr David Nevison is not primarily a philosopher, but in one of his recent bestselling romance novels, he unearthed what is, I think, one of the more profound utterances on the subject. He said, as far as I can remember, that it was all basically just horses going round in circles.
However, if I had to choose between threads about flat versus jumps or threads about value, I would go for the latter every time. This flat v jumps stuff is over too quickly, none of the protagonists hang around and it smells of lager. Value threads go on for ever, get covered in mud and are absolutely hilarious, like an extended Marx Brothers sketch.
I usually describe myself as a died in the wool jumping man. Yet, I grew up with the Borders flapping meetings (flat). When I moved to Glasgow I used to regularly take the train on Saturday nights to Hamilton West and walk the less than a mile to Hamilton Park evening meetings (flat). Loved Mill Reef and Brigadier Gerrard (flat). Think Lester Piggott is the greatest jockey I’ve ever seen (flat). I love the St Leger (flat), The Chester Cup (flat) and the Stewards Cup (flat).
I also love Badminton and Burghley Horse Trials, went to the first ever Lowther Driving Trials, would pay plenty to watch Dressage to Music and would love to go to Hickstead for the Jumping Derby. I also support the local heavy horse show (lovely). For me at the end of the day I realise it is horses that matter.
Anyone for Godstone point to point tomorrow (trains from Victoria at 53 and 23 past the hour takes 37 minutes)
To be fair MD, while no doubt a sweeping generalisation, the point KC was making was that NH racing takes place predominantly during the winter months and as a result tends to attract hardcore racing fans as opposed to the stag do brigade.
It could also be viewed as a more accessible, cheaper way of investing in the sport with the owners, trainers & jockeys (with a few obvious exceptions) being seen as more ‘working class’ – largely due to the lesser prize money and cost of ownership et al.
Lee
Fair enough Lee. I thankyou for the rebuttal.
However, I think KC would prefer telling it like it is.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/3032/26171489.jpg
I started out loving the Flat, following the Henry Cecil/Steve Cauthen alliance and having little interest in jumps beyond the odd big race and stand-out character. Over the years the balance has shifted and NH is very definitely my favourite. Basically I enjoy watching top class horses and races under either code and will happily go to a Flat meeting for a pleasant summer evening out, although I prefer the winter Saturdays bundled up warm watching the steam rising off three-mile chasers.
Draw the line at banded camel races on the sand though.
It was actually worse than that UM – I was at Thurles yesterday so I saw all that happened. The fall was horriffic and it was not until after the race was over that they turned up with the screens. Then whne the screens were up – and this is something I shall never forget – the filly actually leapt right up in the air, flew out from behind the screens before collapsing again.
What you likely saw was the reaction to the barbituate used to euthanize the mare. It’s not uncommon for horses to flail around momentarily after the injection.
That was a particularly tough race, with some nasty looking falls, esp the two at the final fence. Thankfully they both hopped to their feet.
Watching yesterday’s ‘action’ just reinforced my opinion that one ropey old all-weather seller is worth more than all the jumps races outside the festival put together.
Looking at how little actual jumping was taking place by the end of the day, I can only conclude that the jumps community are coming around to my way of thinking.
I greatly prefer the Jumps to Flat racing for the following reasons:
1) Including obstacles adds an extra dimension of skill
2) Including obstacles adds considerably to the excitement. There is very little to excite in a flat race, decreasing as the races get shorter. Watching a 5f sprint in which horses just bomb along a straight track and some go quicker than others leaves me quite cold.
3) The jumps races last longer so you get more action to enjoy and more chance for a "story" to develop. I well remember the day, for example, when Bonanza Boy won a race I saw (live) after being miles behind with a circuit to go. Flat racing is much less likely to produce such "stories" within the races.
4) Jumps horses careers are usually longer so that the public get to know them really well and even to love & cherish them.
Ah, Bonanza Boy in the 1989 Racing Post Chase, getting up to beat Ballyhane and Gainsay I think – memories eh?
One main point which must be mentioned though about Horse Racing is that it is the only truly international sport apart maybe from Snooker,Darts and Tennis in which competitors from other countries can enter races/tournaments to compete in.
For example you wont see Inter Milan entering the FA Cup but a horse trained in Italy can easily come over and run in a Novice Hurdle at Plumpton or a 2yo run in a maiden race at Yarmouth.
Kempton with its Kentucky Derby Challenge is a fantastic way forward in worldwide race appeal and France having a few runners in the festival is an upward curve in the same way that Australian horses running at Royal Ascot has been.
MD, i really do hope you know how privellaged you are over their in the way the top Australian Horses are kept running in races unlike over here where it is about 6-10 races then being shipped off to stud to keep the fees coming in.
On a world scale i do love the Melbourne Cup and wish we could have our Derby Day like that, while i dont know if it is a proper legal Public Holiday over their it should be over here on a Wednesday like it should be with the whole country having the day off with bets,sweepstakes and parties going on to show how much the race means to the Nation.
Neil, I hope you know how priveliged you are that at least you get to see the best bred and overall best flat horses in England for two seasons minimum, with the Classics representing the primary goal.
We breed for the Golden Slipper, and most of those champion 2YOs have fallen by the wayside at 3. It’s insulting that the Victoria Derby (yes – a Derby!) is one of the worst Group 1 races in the country.
And although you praise our country for our champion horses’ "longevity", the times the are a changing. The Darley maroon is everywhere, Gai Waterhouse has no competition in Sydney, and soon enough this country will be swamped by businessmen and tycoons.
Excuse the French, but thank f*** for Hong Kong!
I’m not interested in the Flats versus Jumps debate, but two things that have confused me are the description of Jumps Racing as being more working-class, and as being cheaper. I could break out into lots and lots of swear words, but I will content myself with saying that this is balderdash.
[edit: Jumps Racing is petit bourgeois.]
On another issue mentioned, personally, I don’t suffer from the off-to-stud Flat Syndrome, as I am mainly interested in sprint handicappers.
[Further edit: although I went to the LSE, ‘petit bourgeois’ isn’t meant to be an insult, it is more a statement of an objective fact. Jump racing’s core is the West and Ireland, amongst the farming community.]
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