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The Arc. It’s the best of the best from around the continent, if not the globe, usually at the end of a long season.
The EPSOM DERBY is the best race in the world!!
I will not be swayed in this!!
The ultimate test of a three year old thoroughbred racehorse!!
The atmosphere is fantastic.
It is also sooooooo tough to win because of the above.
You have to have a horse with balance ,courage,staying power and speed and a temperament to cope with all the broohaha before the race. To expect or want this in a three year old so early in his life is a BIG BIG ask!!To win a derby you dont need to be an out and out group 1 horse, you just need to beat a bunch of unexposed 3yos, some years the form is strong, some years its horrid, the track at there age is the testing part.
The arc is a thorough group 1 race year in year out with the best of any age, the track may not be as testing, but its a better quality race overall
Without checking I’d be very confident the last 20 Arc winners would have a significantly better average rating than Derby winners.
But the Derby is the greater race.
cormack15
I’m not a big fan of these questions, as it is surely a matter of opinion, but I’ll give my own opinion for what it’s worth.
It’s not a particularly difficult call. The Arc is the bigger race by far. It’s a bigger occasion globally, it has vastly superior fields, and has more of a sense of occasion. It is just better and bigger in every sense.
It pains me to say that, as growing up, The Derby meant the world, running home from School to soak everything up, everything about it. It sadly lost a lot of its lustre, after the midweek switch, a switch it has never really recovered from.
I hope this comes across the right way, I still love The Derby, I’ve attended all bar three of them since 1990, but it just doesn’t have the same significance as it did then. To think it was once one of the ‘crown jewels’ when it came to broadcasting rights. We now have a generation who have never heard of it in this country, which is a shame.
I hope in time, this can change, but for now, claiming the derby to be the greater race, well only someone stuck in the past, would claim that.
Enough of my opinion. Instead of just throwing it out there ‘Austin’, would it be so difficult to give your thoughts in the initial post, and the reasons for asking? It seems strange to start a thread and not give your own thoughts. Why would that be?
Looks like I am in the minority but hey ho we are all allowed an opinion !!
Every year THE Derby brings a tear to my eye and I am not that sentimental but I will not be swayed!!
@Kris – Sorry yes I should hv given my opinion in the OP. I am someone new to racing and but from my limited knowledge, Derby has much larger history and significance. There are derby race in most countries emulating the Epsom race. That alone makes Derby a very special race.
In terms of quality, Arc is better bcoz it is competed amongst proven G1 horses from all ages. It also has significant international presence, which lacks in derby. However, the track in Epsom is much tougher compared to Longchamp. So its a gruelling test for 3 year olds.
Lets put it this way, Derby is the greatest test for 3 yo horses. Arc is the best G1 race for all ages.
I’m in the majority, I think that the Arc is the toughest race to win. The Derby is a race for the Coolmore, Godolphin, Juddmonte tribes. The chance of a small owner taking the prize are limited. Always the chance their star will be bought off them if their pride and joy shows its a danger to the powerhouses. The Arc however brings in other owners from Europe and further afield who aren’t scared to take on the challenge. And of course the open age race means many more quality horses are eligible to run, including fillies and mares. I wouldn’t mind owning a Derby winner but an Arc winner would be more satisfying.
The better quality race is clearly the Arc because (generally) you have to take on the who’s who of Europe’s best all aged middle distance horses (unless they happen to be geldings) which usually includes the Derby winner and more recently top challengers from Japan.
Although strangely I would argue that the Derby is the toughest and better race to win as it is run on a course that is the ultimate test of a racehorse because it comes too early in their 3 yr old career and thats even before you take into account the rivals you may face….but I guess that is an entirely different question.
Couple of years ago I looked back at the latest 5 renewals, noting Timeform Performance Ratings put up by the winners, seconds and thirds of all Group 1 races.
The Arc came out the absolute best with an average Performance Rating for the winner of 132.
The Derby came out as the best 3 year old race, winner’s average Timeform Performance Rating of 126.But one is restricted to three year olds (and very few fillies take part) and in June of their year; the other for any age (bar 2) and any sex – greater number of good horses able to run… And horses usually progress through the year too. Come Arc day even Derby winners are usually capable of better form than in early June. Four and older aged horses have generally got to their established level and are able to show their career bests.
They are totally different races.
Value Is EverythingIt is a hard one to call as to which is the better race, they are such different tests. As fircwhich one is the bigger race, I think it is easily The Arc. I would have perhaps thought differently Twenty or thirty years ago, but for a variety of reasons, The Derby just is not thexrace it once was. It used to be such a significant occasion on the sporting calendar, but not now
Reading this thread you could switch the names in the posts to the FA Cup and Champions League and it would fit in well.
Blackbeard to conquer the World
No Nathan,
Foreign managers are no longer interested in the FA Cup and the big clubs often play a second eleven.
People are still interested in who wins the Derby. You get “first eleven”, ie the very best horses available running in it – every trainer/owner (“managers”) with a horse good enough to take part (let alone win) will run.
Value Is Everything
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