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Emigration?

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  • #103947
    lollys mate
    Member
    • Total Posts 625

    Toots…

    I thought of you today when I saw a green Skoda estate with PL on its number plate, trying to drive up the hill outside the job that I am working.

    It stalled. Rolled backwards. And hit a blue Nissan that was parked. And guess what?

    They had just returned from a vodka session at the local Weatherspoons pub, on their way to pick up their "cash", from a job they were doing about 10 doors up from my job, before they drove "home" (poland) for christmas.

    I hope they return and do your "cheap" loft conversion. I’m sure you cant wait.

    Oh! I forgot to say, that because of their honesty and politness, they drove off.

    Your perceptions might lead you astray. Have a better look around, before you "percieve" and jump to conclusions that all builders are the same. Their not!

    Whats your trade BTW?

    #103948
    graysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6965

    Remarkable how these copybook examples pop up in front of your eyes with such regularity, LM. Arguably none of us has any reason to believe anything of the sort happened today.<br>

    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #103949
    Prufrock
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2081

    Perhaps the reason you haven’t got any work is because British builders are generally perceived as lazy, unreliable, good for nothing aresholes, whereas Polish workers are perceived as polite, hard working, reliable craftsmen?

    Perhaps if British builders hadn’t spent the last decades  behaving like cowboys and treating us like idiots we wouldn’t be begging for eastern europeans to do our loft conversions.

    Something for you to ponder when you finally p**s off to your English ghetto on the Costa Brava, wondering why the Spaniards spit in your cerveza.

    With love as always.

    My favourite ever post on TRF. Thank you, tooting!<br>

    #103950
    Prufrock
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2081

    I WANT TO BE A ONE IN TEN!

    Do us all a favour, lollys mate: stop talking about it and just do it.

    #103951
    lollys mate
    Member
    • Total Posts 625

    Bit nasty Prufrock…………….. Where’s your mate toots reply?

    Grays.

    Mabey you live in an area that is sh1t. The area that I live in was nice.

    You probably dont see it happening. The same as I didn’t see it happening. But when it comes to you, its like, Oh my God! The new mass ain’t British, and their going to change my whole way of living!

    Which is where I come back to my original point, of, why are so many Brits leaving your beloved country, at the fastest rate ever?

    And it isn’t remarkable. It happened.

    It grates on me, especially when you see them picking up an envelope of cash, and getting away with their crimes!

    Its wrong!

    #103952
    graysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6965

    Quote: from lollys mate on 7:19 pm on Dec. 21, 2006<br> Grays.

    Mabey you live in an area that is sh1t. The area that I live in was nice. <br>

    <br>For "was nice", read "was predominately white Anglo-Saxon", and in which any significant shift in the composition of that area has been regarded as a threat far out of proportion to that which it actually constitutes.

    I’ve never lived in places that could be universally dubbed "very nice" or "absolutely bloody horrible" – they’ve all been "interesting" and with their own distinct characteristics, problems and challenges. I will say, however, that these places – drawn from the entire social stratum – have varied in their content of non-white residents from 0% to around 90%. Have a wild guess which of these was comparatively the least pleasurable in which to live! Actually, have two guesses. You might need both.

    <br> You probably dont see it happening. The same as I didn’t see it happening. But when it comes to you, its like, Oh my God! The new mass ain’t British, and their going to change my whole way of living!

    Looks like I was right about the threat bit.

    <br>  Which is where I come back to my original point, of, why are so many Brits leaving your beloved country, at the fastest rate ever?

    Error, Coco. I don’t regard it as my country to any great extent, and you’ll starve before you find me having referred to it as "beloved" on these pages.

    Mere accidents of geography and fate put me and everyone else born in the UK here (you yourself could have emerged from under any rock on the planet rather than one here had fate conspired otherwise). I simply don’t regard that as justification enough to lay a greater claim to this country than the next person, be he or she native or immigrant.

    <br> It grates on me, especially when you see them picking up an envelope of cash, and getting away with their crimes!

    It’s wrong!<br>

    <br>…As opposed to the none more honourable acts of those Britons who have proven well capable of claiming whilst working, failing to pay speed camera fines / child maintenance / council tax, selling counterfeit goods at sizeable mark-ups, passing off lethal goods as reliable for a quick profit etc. for as long as anyone would care to remember?

    gc<br>

    (Edited by graysonscolumn at 8:41 pm on Dec. 28, 2006)

    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #103953
    lollys mate
    Member
    • Total Posts 625

    Good rant grays.

    "nice" ment, clean, very low crime, being able to walk home from school without being mugged by non "wasps" (you started it!). This country "was" white anglo saxon when I was born. But you keep missing my point. During the 60’s the blacks were asked to come over here to drive our buses, the paddies came over to dig our roads, the pakies came over here to open up corner shops.

    They all came over and intergrated! And for the record, did a bloody good job.

    Your argument is floored as you stated yourself, you have never lived in a nice place. I have, but it has changed, within the last 5 years. Why cant you accept this. You must agree that with all this immigration, the country has to change. My local town has changed so much that I "have" to now leave the place where I was born, to try and improve my families way of life.

    I dont want to move!

    But I have to. Just like the 1 in 10 who have moved abroad, or the 90% of "wasps" that have left Harrow.

    If you dont regard your home as your country, then your argument is even more feeble than I thought.

    Where, do you live?

    Please tell me, and I might understand.

    The new masses thing I wrote, "is" a direct threat to my way of life. Ive told you that before. Keep up!

    "Mere accidents of geography and fate".

    Thats quite pathetic and gay!

    You say;I simply don’t regard that as justification enough to lay a greater claim to this country than the next person, be he or she native or immigrant.

    Jeez, your so liberal!

    So my Grandad, who fought for this, sorry, his country and paid his taxes, into this country for 50 years, has the same rights for a bit of help from Blair as someone who has got into your country by illegal means, and goes on to murders some WPC.

    I tell you what gc.

    Just give me a "yes" or "no" to the above paragraph, to let me know if this is worth continuing!<br>

    #103954
    lollys mate
    Member
    • Total Posts 625

    Its simple gc………………

    Yes or no ????????????

    #103955
    graysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6965

    Full reply to follow at some point this week.

    A simple yes or no to the above is not possible, I fear, especially as responses to my previous post have been misunderstood as badly as they have for the greater part.

    I won’t expect you to agree with the responses (either in part or in whole), but I never mind the expenditure of effort in an interesting cause.

    gc<br>

    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #103956
    graysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6965

    Now then, where was I?

    <br>Good rant grays.

    I assure you I don’t rant. It gains nothing. I debate.

    <br>"nice" ment, clean, very low crime, being able to walk home from school without being mugged by non "wasps" (you started it!).

    Yes, a slight error of judgment on my part, perhaps (no need to bolt "Protestant" onto "white Anglo-Saxon" for the particular points I was making), but that would be the only thing I would wish to retract from last time.

    <br>… the paddies came over to dig our roads, the pakies came over here to open up corner shops.

    They all came over and intergrated! And for the record, did a bloody good job.

    I do wish, therefore, that if they have proved their worth to you in this way, you’d have found it in your heart by now to start referring to them by something other than the unflattering names listed here. It’s not too much to ask.

    <br> Your argument is floored

    Topps Tiled, I think you’ll find.

    <br>as you stated yourself, you have never lived in a nice place.

    Nnnnnnnnnnn… I’m afraid you haven’t quite understood what I said. You gave one definition of "nice" above, but there are many others.

    Of all the places I have lived, my actual home village would actually share the most characteristics with the one given here, yet – outside of the four walls of the family home, which accorded me an idyllic childhood, thankfully –  it frequently proved the most hostile of the lot. This was a place of meanness, overt racism (despite, or maybe because (who knows), of a permanent complete absence of non-white people), NIMBYism and general Daily Telegraph-reading unpleasantness.

    Where there is life, though, there is hope, and to dismiss this place as having been entirely without other qualities would be disingenuous. And so that balance has existed in all the other places I have lived in since – home and abroad, urban and rural, wealthy and poor – in differing measures. As I said previously, never universally "nice" nor "horrible", but always "interesting".

    The Harrow – North and South – you fear tainted forever through the influx of others is similarly far from devoid of positives. My little brother lived in Roxeth Green Avenue for five years, covered every blade of tarmac of both halves of the town and its environs in his capacity as a planning officer, constantly spoke highly of the quality of living pound for pound across the entire social stratum, the friendliness of the people of all colours and creeds, etc etc, and I could only concur with that on my visits. Good is where you find it, if you have the means and the will.

    <br>You must agree that with all this immigration, the country has to change.

    We’ve been here before, and my line remains that it is the geographic allocation, rather than the numerical total, of immigrants which remains problematic. Granted a more sensible spread of incomers across the country rather than the concentration in London and the South East, the concern over the numbers wouldn’t be half what it is.

    Your country has not failed you in terms of whom it has let in, but rather by not placing them as strategically as it did the original waves of migrant workers fifty-odd years previously.

    <br> If you dont regard your home as your country, then your argument is even more feeble than I thought.

    Where, do you live?

    I "live" in a small, unexceptional town in Hertfordshire with its fair mix of racial groups, poor and less poor areas, social ills, crime levels and soforth. I bring in a moderate wage; live with Mrs Column in a flat utterly unremarkable apart from its propensity to go ice cold as soon as August is up; can count Sikhs, Muslims and white people among our block-mates; and more or less get by on what we bring in. It is perfectly acceptable to us. We make sure of that.

    The town is not home, though, any more or less than it is Mrs Column’s home, my neighbours’ home or anybody else’s home. Neither was my home village "home" – I just happened to be hatched there, and my passport will attest to that for as long as that makes things easier for everyone else.

    Fate could have placed me anywhere else on the planet, and doubtless will do so again however many hundreds or thousands of years hence it takes my dust to become something else. Understanding that, then, the whole idea of occupying one piece of ground, and claiming it as one’s own, can only strike me as being as illogical as, say, following the soccer team of closest geographical proximity.

    <br>"Mere accidents of geography and fate".

    Thats quite pathetic and gay!

    A replacement insult for "crap" or "rubbish" wouldn’t be my preferred rendering of the word "gay", if that’s alright with you.

    <br> So my Grandad, who fought for this, sorry, his country and paid his taxes, into this country for 50 years, has the same rights for a bit of help from Blair as someone who has got into your country by illegal means, and goes on to murders some WPC.<br>

    Why use such an example of a prospective incomer? And why, therefore, imply that all such incomers have the propensity to be as nefarious and murderous, whilst all incumbent Britons do not? Throughput of people on and off this island, legally or otherwise, has been an arbitrary constant since at least Roman times; and it remains a reliable source of anything from cultural enrichment to the cheap labour you were asking for on another thread to help your storm damage repair opportunities.

    I would not wish to decry your antecedents’ efforts fifty years previously, but I maintain that the democracy they strove to uphold back then ceases to become "democratic" if it is permitted to exclude anybody who – barring a few well-documented and undoubtedly regrettable exceptions – constitutes no particular harm.

    I would not anticipate too much of the above representing a consensus of opinion, but it is, as always, an unerringly honest reply to some probing questions.

    A very good evening to you.

    gc<br>

    (Edited by graysonscolumn at 10:17 pm on Jan. 19, 2007)

    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #103957
    Ted
    Member
    • Total Posts 150

    Just out of interest LM, where is your local town?

    #103958
    lollys mate
    Member
    • Total Posts 625

    Harrow.

    #103959
    Ted
    Member
    • Total Posts 150

    Just up the road from me then.

    #103960
    insomniac
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1453

    his was a place of meanness, overt racism (despite, or maybe because (who knows), of a permanent complete absence of non-white people), NIMBYism and general Daily Telegraph-reading unpleasantness.

    Steady-on Graysons old bean – I doubt if any of the foul-mouthed hoodies waiting to kick my face in when I’m out on my own at night read the Telegraph. If they did they would almost certainly have rejected violence and racism. I guess most racists and thugs read (if they are able) in no particular order:- Daily Mirror The Sun and The Star.<br>Anyone who reads the Telegraph and the likes of Boris Johnson and W F Deedes would laugh at suggestions that it is any way racist.  It is the red tops plus the "on-message" Independent and Guardian journos who continually avoid facing up to the reality that it is  – primarily – the working class who are  racist that help racism fester. Ask the BNP how many Telegraph readers they hope to win over at local elections!

    #103961
    graysonscolumn
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6965

    Quote: from insomniac on 6:36 pm on Jan. 20, 2007[br]

    Steady-on Graysons old bean – I doubt if any of the foul-mouthed hoodies waiting to kick my face in when I’m out on my own at night read the Telegraph. If they did they would almost certainly have rejected violence and racism. I guess most racists and thugs read (if they are able) in no particular order:- Daily Mirror The Sun and The Star.<br>Anyone who reads the Telegraph and the likes of Boris Johnson and W F Deedes would laugh at suggestions that it is any way racist.  It is the red tops plus the "on-message" Independent and Guardian journos who continually avoid facing up to the reality that it is  – primarily – the working class who are  racist that help racism fester. Ask the BNP how many Telegraph readers they hope to win over at local elections!

    <br>Basically yes, the above is true for the greater part; but I will mention that the particular village to which I refered, that of my upbringing, was part of a cluster of those on the Lancs / Yorks border populated almost exclusively by not badly off, middle class types with not a hoodie in sight. And yet the overtly racist tendencies of some were there for all to see, to the extent of the BNP holding the occasional – and not badly frequented – event in one such village for the incumbent population.

    Further, in one of my previous existences as a peripatetic library and information professional in Yorkshire, I came across similar pockets of such thought and activity in what would, by received wisdom, be regarded as the "unlikely" locations of remote farm villages and hamlets.

    I suppose in both instances I was disappointed that such ideologies were given the time of day by people whose personal circumstances gave little discernible reason to be attracted to them – certainly most of the farm types would never have seen a non-white person in their lives, much less have any direct reason to think their lot had been spoiled by them.

    To that end I’d probably suggest the number of prospective BNP voters among the DT-reading types in both areas mentioned (and it was the DT, for the greater part – you’d not find a Guardian in our home village other than by ordering it in especially) probably isn’t to be underestimated, for as long as the party’s groundless, irrational dislike of certain non-white groups remains in tune with theirs.

    I don’t doubt, though, that case studies from TRFfers from other parts of the country could present a slightly different picture.

    gc<br>

    The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.

    #103962
    dave jay
    Member
    • Total Posts 3386

    The BNP always takes votes from Labour .. voter apathy will see the BNP get seats on the London Assembly, 5% of the vote gets them in.

    #103963
    Ted
    Member
    • Total Posts 150

    Would that be so terrible?

    It might just be the kick up the arse the main parties need.

    (Edited by Ted at 5:34 pm on Jan. 21, 2007)

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