- This topic has 60 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 17 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
Drunken, sometimes violent behaviour has been part of British culture for hundreds of years. It has nothing to do with politicians, Europe, do-gooders, the high price of oil, the 1960s or anything else and it isn’t getting worse. You can find reports of alcohol-fuelled violence and public disorder going back hundreds of years, at football and cricket matches, at village celebrations, pretty much anywhere where a crowd of people gather together and consume too much alcohol.
The only way to prevent it at sporting occasions is to ban alcohol. If venues/racecourses/football stadia are not going to do this, then it will occur.
Well, that might be the short term solution anyway. The long term solution is difficult because it demands a change in culture…not necessarily drinking culture either. The danes, where I’ve lived for a couple of years love to get a little smashed on a Saturday night but Copenhagen was incredibly safe.
They also didn’t achieve this by blaming foreigners or do good liberals since essentially they believe in do-good liberalism. The answer lies outside the discussion of this forum.
SHL
You could never ban alcohol from the racecourse. This industry thrives on the general public to fund it rather than us horsemen. And the general public’s culture involves transforming the races into a party, social gathering etc etc
I admire the pragmatism of the racecourses these days. They seem to be dialled in to the fact that horseracings general mass appeal in this part of the world is as a betting medium and/or a social day out.
It may not suit us diehards but it brings revenue into the sport that one hopes is ploughed back into prizemoney and facilities. I would restrict alcohol consumption to specific areas of the racecourse though and have a zero tolerence policy twords those who cant have a few without feeling the need to create chaos. This should be enforced by a robust security presence. The solution lies with the racecourses.
I’m as concerned as anyone else about bad behaviour in public; but I have a question.
In Summer, when people misbehave at cricket they’re often identified as ‘football supporters.’
In Summer, when people misbehave at racing they’re often identified as ‘football supporters.’
Is there any chance whatsoever that the people causing trouble at racing are…..(drum-roll please) HORSE-RACING FANS?
I know, it’s a somewhat unorthodox view, but hey, let’s be open-minded!
Spot on! So anyone getting drunk in pubs/bars must be football fans too?
Please do not put words in my mouth (although why let the truth get in the way of a good headline – you wouldn’t be the first or last journo to do that
).It happens at racetracks. It happens in supermarket car parks. It happens in nightclubs. It happens in city centres on Saturday afternoons. It happens in the beer tents at country shows.
No, it is not rigth and I never for one moment condoned the consumptino of alcohol to excess nor the commiting of violent acts against another human being.
However, it is also wrong for anyone to make it seem that violence at racetracks is either a) a new thing or b) a serious problem that is getting out of hand.
In my experience it is not. The violence is usually between fellow mindless drunks, and the general public are not threatened by it.
I would hate to think any potential racegoers were put off going because a few isolated incidents were completely blown out of proportion by the media.
Wre you once bitten by a journo as a child – you seem to hold them in a very low regard
I agree the problem is not confined to the racecourse and is a reflection of society as a whole and it is something that needs to be addressed across the board.
As I said in a post elsewhere the reporting of violent incidents at racecourses is a difficult one – as you said it does happen rarely – however the fact it happens at all is wrong. Should the press pretend it does not happen? If so then what about those who witnessed the incident – will they not question why it was not reported? In my reports of the incidents at Sandown and Newmarket – both of which I witnessed – I mentioned in passing in one or two lines – not what I call excessive coverage.
Admittedly I am currently writing a comment article in which I shall be covering the matter in more detail.
However the drunken violence is only the thin end of the wedge – just as intimidating are the noisy drunken groups. Whilst some can "accept" such behaviour others are intimidated by it and why should they have to?
My wife very rarely goes racing now because she "doesn’t like the atmosphere" I certainly wouldn’t take a child to a weekend meeting because I wouldn’t want it subjected to boorish behaviour and foul language.
One idea could be to do what Old Trafford do in Test Matches and have an alchohol free stand where people who actually want to watch the Cricket can sit with other enthusiasts and enjoy the game.
It is amazing really because we keep get being told that we are under the credit crunch and money is tight yet people pay over the top admin prices and pay £3 to £4 for a pint of gas filled lager and can drink 3-6 pints while being on course aswell as £30 to £70 for a bottle of champers.
A friend of mine was in shock at Haydock last week as the course had about 14,000 on but the huge amount where families taking vouchers from the MEN newspaper and getting in for £5 and their was no trouble all day and the atmos was relaxing all day, I didnt point out though that all the drunks would have been at Chester the day before and probably did not have enough cash to do both.
Drunken chanting at football and other sports stadiums seems ‘normal’ and ‘acceptable’ it’s an appropriate place to do it provided it’s not racist etc. These places expect noise to create an atmosphere.
Places like Wimbledon tennis, golf courses etc do not as players need quiet to concentrate. It’s inappropriate to do so IMO. I put racecourses in the same bracket in that people expect a convivial, pleasant atmosphere. Nobody needs to concentrate in the same way at the races but it just seems wrong that shouting, swearing and chanting can be OK in this environment.
Personally, I don’t like it but I should be able to have a peaceful day’s racing to escape the sorts of people that behave in this way. I cringe at the lads and ladettes at race meetings F’ing and blinding and getting pi**ed up till they turn into rude idiots who could well be intimidating to some. I wouldn’t let my two young kids near them. It is not the example I want them to see.
I went to Salisbury races on my stag day/night. 12 lads all got pi**ed, had a few bets, wore suits in the members’ and were polite to everyone we spoke to. Nobody felt the need to noticed by being loud. Maybe it’s the way we were brought up or maybe we are all public school snobs. I don’t know.
I just wish they would find another ‘hobby’ ….
- Total Posts 17716
I must say that I can see why theres such behaviour and understand with all the drinking and what not but the fact my nan felt very unsafe yesterday was quite bad as I wanted her to enjoy the day, maybe a more quieter event next time or would that be backing down to these yobs who spoil the big events for people who want to see the better horses. If you want to go and have a big piss up then goto your local or football ground not a respectable sport who people pay a more then expensive entry fee to watch a spectical off the best racehorses today, also was quite bad they didnt have any discount for O.A.P’s.
Sorry for spelling and grammer im shatterd.
- Total Posts 17716
lol
Seems all the trouble is at the Southern tracks – people complain about places like Haydock but there’s no fighting or abuse of jockeys, horses etc.
Let’s make the Southerners stick to lager-shandy
Come on Irish – York? Chester? both have serious problems with drunk racegoers.
They have issues with alcohol but I’ve yet to see any reports or see for myself "mass brawls" at any of the northern tracks.
Seems all the trouble is at the Southern tracks – people complain about places like Haydock but there’s no fighting or abuse of jockeys, horses etc.
Let’s make the Southerners stick to lager-shandy
Come on Irish – York? Chester? both have serious problems with drunk racegoers.
They have issues with alcohol but I’ve yet to see any reports or see for myself "mass brawls" at any of the northern tracks.
It does not need to be a "mass brawl" – I have seen racegoers threaten to assult stewards at York, as well as a fight between two racegoers on the steppings and I have seen stewards intervening to prevent a fight kicking off at Chester.
It is not a north – south issue – it can happen at any racecourse – because we don’t see it personally does not mean it does not happen. I have heard many reports from different sources about trouble at Worcester – yet I have never seen any trouble there myself – because I have not seen it does not mean it does not happen.
As usual the minorities in this country shout loudest and spoil it for everyone else.. The drunks and the do-gooders…
Newbury – Dump.. It doesn’t need drunks to spoil it.. The only reason I would go there again is to watch Denman win the henessy off a mega weight..
They were fighting behind the grandstand at Haydock when I was there for a Saturday evening fixture a fortnight ago.
Drunken, sometimes violent behaviour has been part of British culture for hundreds of years. It has nothing to do with politicians, Europe, do-gooders, the high price of oil, the 1960s or anything else and it isn’t getting worse.
Precisely. The sledgehamer polemic which inspired Andrew’s response in the first place took no account of that.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Andrew Hughes – Its 2008 now people are supposed to evolve. What was acceptable in years gone by isn’t now. 100 years ago times were generally tough, people had nothing it was a hard, tough existance – you could understand the inevitability of violence even if it wasn’t right.
Nowadays there is no justification for moronic behaviour whatsoever these people are sad little cretins and society really doesn’t need apologists for them.
).
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.