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Connecttions wasted their time and money running Cooldine over 2 miles. It was not as if they were trying to get him well handicapped.
MarkRunning potential staying chasers over 2m in their formative races is educational, and rarely a waste of time. As the trainers of Best Mate, Kauto Star, Kicking King, War of Attrition and a host of others would no doubt verify.
Connecttions wasted their time and money running Cooldine over 2 miles. It was not as if they were trying to get him well handicapped.
MarkRunning potential staying chasers over 2m in their formative races is educational, and rarely a waste of time. As the trainers of Best Mate, Kauto Star, Kicking King, War of Attrition and a host of others would no doubt verify.
Every one of those horses you quote there Reet, were capable of top class form at 2 miles over hurdles. It was quite reasonable for them to run at 2 miles over fences, where they were all capable of top class form at 2m.
Cooldine on the other hand improved over hurdles when upped to 2 1/2 miles +. His best run being when 4th over 3m in the grade 1 World Series Hurdle at Punchestown. Cooldine was never going to be good enough at 2m over fences.
Can you come up with many proven staying hurdles (who have not shown very good form at 2m); who have won top class 2m / 2m2f races over fences Reet?
That is why I say they were wasting their time at 2 miles.
Mark
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Can you come up with many proven staying hurdles (who have not shown very good form at 2m); who have won top class 2m / 2m2f races over fences Reet?
Denman and My Way De Solzen spring to mind.
IMO you should almost always train a horse for speed before stamina. If a horse is a stayer anyway then stamina should improve with fitness, but to train it to be as good as it can be it should have as much tactical speed as possible and speed is something that takes work.
By sending a horse over a trip short of its ideal in its earlier years, it will be required to travel faster and finish faster, this should build muscle, increase lung capacity and get its heart going 100% in a finish. All these things should stand it in good stead later on in its career IMO.
Its like when you go into a gym and the treadmill will have on it a chart of pulse rates for various age groups, on that chart there will be a guide saying work at 60% to burn fat (low intensity-long duration) and 80% for cardiovascual training (higher intensity but not necessarily as long). I guarantee you that someone who regularly trains at 80% for 20 mins will be better prepared for a race than if they were to train at 60% for 30 mins.
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Good point Bulwark, though it also has much to do with training horses to jump fences at speed without bottoming them over staying trips, and is used, to some degree, by the majority of better trainers.
I’d doubt that Cooldine’s connections would be too upset about the experience he gained in the Durkan, nor the 8 grand he garnered for his 3rd place finish.
Similarly with hurdlers, although obviously a stayer, and with Festival entries confined to distance races, I doubt Pandorama’s connections would be totally miffed about his run over shorter on Sunday, or the 60k he got for doing it.
Can you come up with many proven staying hurdles (who have not shown very good form at 2m); who have won top class 2m / 2m2f races over fences Reet?
Denman and My Way De Solzen spring to mind.
When did Denman win a very good race at around 2m over hurdles?
I will give you My Way De Solzen, even though he did win a 2m1f listed hurdle at Exeter. But I did say MANY, there aren’t many.
Sure Cooldine might have won some "place" money when running in the Durkan, but had he run at 2m4f + he would probably have won much more money.
Running a horse at a trip too short for it might be able to help his speed work. With Cooldine I believe running him at 2m4f will be good enough speed work, as he is a 3m+ horse in the making. Running a staying horse at much shorter than he will be best at, putting him under pressure, can do damage to a horses tremperament. It is different just starting him off in a beginners chase against inferior rivals, that’s fine. But not taking on the best at 2m.
Mark
Value Is EverythingWhen did he win a top class 2m/2m 2f race over fences too for that matter?
Denman’s best run over hurdles was at 2m 5f and over fences at 3m 2f. No top class or even very good race form at 2m over either hurdles or fences.
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OK, I was working from memory; not that it alters the fact that Denman started his chasing career over 2m2f, (the kind of distance most Gold Cup winners have for the past dozen or so years), and I’d doubt very much that PN thought he was wasting time or money, or that it was any threat to the horse’s temperament.
Not that there aren’t some on here who consider themselves better trainers.OK, I was working from memory; not that it alters the fact that Denman started his chasing career over 2m2f, (the kind of distance most Gold Cup winners have for the past dozen or so years), and I’d doubt very much that PN thought he was wasting time or money, or that it was any threat to the horse’s temperament.
Not that there aren’t some on here who consider themselves better trainers.Even Cooldine can win a beginners chase at around 2m, as I said, nothing wrong with that. Class will pull him through in that grade. Just wasting their time in top races at 2m.
Certainly do not consider myself a better trainer Reet. Could possibly do a better job than some at placing their horses though.
Mark
Value Is EverythingI think you’re looking through green tinted spectacles!
Must get a pair of those green tinted spectacles!!!
Mullins has done a fantastic job with this horse….gradually stepping him up in trip as he goes along. He said it himself, he did not want to take on 3 miles at Christmas with the horse and felt he would learn more running in a 2 mile chase at pace. He was right as his jumping has improved as he has taken him along.
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