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Inbreeding

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  • #1647470
    Avatar photoArchipenko
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    Bolger is known as one of the boldest exponents of inbreeding in the industry, and with New Variant he really is invoking the spirit of one of his heroes, Marcel Boussac. The three-year-old’s sire New Approach and dam Global Reach are both by Galileo, resulting in a rare 2×2 duplication in the tabulated pedigree.

    https://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/news/im-delighted-to-have-him-back-jim-bolger-welcomes-another-returning-hero-to-his-redmondstown-stud-aabvE8W5wLjH/

    #1647473
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    I know how I feel about it.

    My fear is inbreeding might be a long-term recipe for producing horses which may be precocious and fast, but may also have physical defects, poor bone and conformation, the sort that need to race on heavily-watered ground as they’re not actually that sound.

    Some of them win pattern races or get black type on these surfaces, then go off to stud to produce yet more inbred, infirm, progeny.

    In 20 years’ time they will all have to race on overwatered slop, or maybe abandon turf racing altogether and race exclusively on artificial, so-called, AW surfaces and the biggest concern will by then be whether a few might break down from walking on hard standing for a few minutes round a paddock.

    All sounds a bit Future Shock, “Whoops, Apocalypse!” but I wouldn’t entirely rule it out.

    Professor A Partridge on inbreeding generally: https://youtu.be/n5jpVbEL0jc

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1647479
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    “Maybe abandon turf racing altogether and race exclusively on artificial, so-called, AW surfaces”.

    That thought has occurred to me as well. I hope it never happens but it would not surprise me if it did. I expect some trainers would welcome it.

    I know it is only because of the weather but the Lingfield Derby Trial is being run on the all weather track this year. How long until that becomes permanent?

    We were assured the Northumberland Plate and Newcastle’s other famous Flat races would stay on turf. That assurance was not worth much.

    Agree with ID’s assessment of the in breeding issue. Why does Bolger think it is a good idea?

    #1647486
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Lingfield Park has never taken the rain well and back in the day, when I used to attend their often decent-quality (saw Berlin and Bolands Cross there) Thursday Jumps meetings in winter, the ground was often Heavy.

    This was pre watering and in summer you’d often get Good to Firm, or even Firm, ground.

    And with fewer fixtures, there were enough top-of-the-ground horses ready to run and populate the fields.

    Now they’re watering, you seldom see the word “Firm” in a going description any more, Heavy winter ground has become “abandoned waterlogged” more often than I can ever remember and, if we get a wet spring like this one, we reach the absolute nadir of waterlogged Flat Turf cards too.

    And I personally make a connection between watering and increasing inbreeding to arguably increase speed and precocity at the expense of good bone and sound conformation generally.

    Universal “AW” racing in the UK is sadly coming IMO and the best traditionalists can hope for is that they at least dye the Tapeta green.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1647488
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    There’s an episode of the Simpsons where they go to the greyhound track and the sign outside says “Think of them as little horses”.

    If UK racing were ever to become restricted to artificial surfaces, I’d walk away. I simply cannot think of them as big greyhounds.

    #1647494
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    It’s all a bit “Hunger Games,” for sure.

    And for me part of it is racehorses whose mother is also their uncle who’s married to their sister, and seems to have a fifth leg.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1647516
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
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    Good point about the AW, Ian.

    There are already far too many three year old maidens making their turf debut after a few runs on the AW.
    It’s easier for trainer to run a late-maturing two year old in November or December since there are more AW tracks and meetings as well.
    I wonder how it might feel for some horses to run on “proper” turf for the first time. Considering the AW experience they were introduced to in the first place.
    Is there a way to split a turf stallion from an AW stallion?

    #1647613
    Avatar photoArchipenko
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    Having Galileo 2 x 2 means the parents are half siblings. If you keep doing that you’ll end up with 3/4 siblings and then full siblings as parents.

    What it would be good to know is what is the inbreeding coefficient of the top 10 / 20 racehorses in history.

    I.e. does it actually work?

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