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I know this seems a silly question, but I’m not mad I assure you all.
Can non thoroughbred horses race in the UK? Or half-bred?
Please this is a serious question. It became apparent to me that this might be not be BHA law, just deemed essential.
NSB horses (31/32 TB or more) can race under NH rules. Otherwise all flat/jumps horses must be pure Thoroughbred.
Beyond the BHA, there is racing for other breeds. Arabian racing is also held at various tracks. There is some Standardbred racing (http://www.bhrc.org.uk/), although obviously nowhere near as much as in North America, Australia/NZ and continental Europe. Amateur pony races (including the Shetland Grand National) are fairly common at point-to-points.
If you’re going to race the horse, it’s birth/bloodlines must be registered with the relevant authority. The stud books go back right to the beginning of the breed because all thoroughbreds trace their male line back to the 3 original founding sires: the Byerley Turk, the Darley Arabian and the Godolphin Arabian.
thoroughbred thank you.
Yes all sire lines go back to the Darly Arabian and the others i understand! But if for instance I had a colt one half Nasrullah would it be allowed to race?
The answer should be in here somewhere itasawar –
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Orders-and-rules&staticID=126044&depth=1
NSB horses (31/32 TB or more) can race under NH rules. Otherwise all flat/jumps horses must be pure Thoroughbred.
Beyond the BHA, there is racing for other breeds. Arabian racing is also held at various tracks. There is some Standardbred racing (http://www.bhrc.org.uk/), although obviously nowhere near as much as in North America, Australia/NZ and continental Europe. Amateur pony races (including the Shetland Grand National) are fairly common at point-to-points.
That is quite a bit of misinformation.
A horse doesNOT
have to be a TB to race either on the flat or over fences in GB or Ire, in any race from the Derby to the Grand National (there have been numerous winners of the GN that were not TBs, the most recent being Mon Mome in 2008).
The requirement to race is that the horse be registered in either
i) the GSB (which is for TBs), or one of it’s sister studbooks world wide that is a member of the ISBC.
ii) Weatherbys’ NON-THOROUGHBRED REGISTER.
iii) The AQPS register.Obviously both ii) and iii) are
NOT
Thoroughbreds.
NSB horses (31/32 TB or more) can race under NH rules. Otherwise all flat/jumps horses must be pure Thoroughbred.
Beyond the BHA, there is racing for other breeds. Arabian racing is also held at various tracks. There is some Standardbred racing (http://www.bhrc.org.uk/), although obviously nowhere near as much as in North America, Australia/NZ and continental Europe. Amateur pony races (including the Shetland Grand National) are fairly common at point-to-points.
That is quite a bit of misinformation.
A horse doesNOT
have to be a TB to race either on the flat or over fences in GB or Ire, in any race from the Derby to the Grand National (there have been numerous winners of the GN that were not TBs, the most recent being Mon Mome in 2008).
The requirement to race is that the horse be registered in either
i) the GSB (which is for TBs), or one of it’s sister studbooks world wide that is a member of the ISBC.
ii) Weatherbys’ NON-THOROUGHBRED REGISTER.
iii) The AQPS register.Obviously both ii) and iii) are
NOT
Thoroughbreds.
By NSB I meant NTB, sorry. Most AQPS/NTB that make it to the track are almost entirely TB anyway. Mon Mome is 63/64 TB.
I haven’t seen any NTB/AQPS horses in any flat races ever, so I assumed that they weren’t allowed in.Are you sure that horses registered in Weatherby’s Non-TB Register can race under rules? I had a warmblood show jumper on the Non TB Register and he was definitely NOT permitted to race (though he was very quick!)
There is also unlicensed reacing (Flapping) and it is possible they have different rules about whether the horse has to be TB or not.
Most famously Durbar II, 1914 Derby winner, was not considered a thoroughbred and his name appeared in italics in the General Stud Book. He was most renown as the maternal grandsire of Tourbillon, champion sire but experiments close in-breeding to him ruined Marcel Boussac’s stud.
Most famously Durbar II, 1914 Derby winner, was not considered a thoroughbred and his name appeared in italics in the General Stud Book. He was most renown as the maternal grandsire of Tourbillon, champion sire but experiments close in-breeding to him ruined Marcel Boussac’s stud.
Durbar wasn’t considered a TB because he had an American dam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jersey_Act
The Jersey Act was introduced to prevent the registration of most American-bred Thoroughbred horses in the British General Stud Book. It had its roots in the desire of the British to halt the influx of American-bred racehorses of possibly impure bloodlines during the early 20th century. Many American-bred horses were exported to Europe to race and retire to a breeding career after a number of US states banned gambling, which depressed Thoroughbred racing as well as breeding in that country. The loss of breeding records during the American Civil War and the late beginning of the registration of American Thoroughbreds led many in the British racing establishment to doubt that the American-bred horses were purebred.
In 1913 the Jockey Club and the owners of the General Stud Book passed a regulation named by the foreign press after the Jockey Club’s senior steward, Lord Jersey, prohibiting the registration of horses in the book unless all of their ancestors had been registered. Despite protests from American breeders the regulation was in force until 1949. Among the factors influencing its relaxation were the racing success of ineligible horses in Europe and the damage being caused to British and Irish breeders by the unavailability of French Thoroughbreds during and after the Second World War. In addition, by 1949 the impure ancestors of the American bloodlines had receded far back in most horses’ ancestry.
Are you sure that horses registered in Weatherby’s Non-TB Register can race under rules? I had a warmblood show jumper on the Non TB Register and he was definitely NOT permitted to race (though he was very quick!)
There is also unlicensed reacing (Flapping) and it is possible they have different rules about whether the horse has to be TB or not.
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … 66&depth=3
The relevant section.
8.3 The second condition is that the horse has been accepted for inclusion in
8.3.1 the Stud Book maintained by the Stud Book Authority of Great Britain and Ireland,
8.3.2 a Stud Book approved by the International Stud Book Committee (see Paragraph 8.6),
8.3.3 theNon-Thoroughbred Register
, or
8.3.4 the Autre Que Pur Sang (AQPS Register).To be accepted into the NTR, the rules established by Weatherbys can be found here.
http://www.weatherbys.co.uk/sites/defau … gister.pdfIf your horse was in the NTR, then it was eligible to race.
Durbar wasn’t considered a TB because he had an American dam.
Not strictly true, Durbar’s female line was of "unknown" origin. The country from whence his female ancestor’s hailed was not paramount, although it is quite true that relations between Great Britain and the US in the early 20th Century almost lead to war.
The Tourbillon line is still going through Ahonoora-Indian Ridge and their sons. While Ahonoora and Indian Ridge both proved capable of siring horses better than themselves and/or who showed good form at longer distances than might be expected, there does not yet appear to be a grandson of Indian Ridge ready to continue the line. Pearl Secret is an exciting prospect but most of the better sons of Compton Place have been gelded. Notnowcato has made a reasonable start at stud but needs a high grade performer soon. Dr Devious is currently doing well in Italy so there is some hope that a good stallion will emerge from one of these sources.
I think Miss Woodford has it correct.
Until the 1980s there were differences between some countries in the definition of "thoroughbred" and thus in some countries reciprocating the stud books of others:
http://www.horseracingintfed.com/aboutD … =10&file=5
The Vintner is quoting from this part of the BHA Rules of Racing:
http://rules.britishhorseracing.com/Ord … d+register
These rules relate to registration of a horse by the BHA.
But they do not support the conclusion that any horse in any of these registers can race in any BHA race.
If you follow through the definitions in the Rules, you’ll find that unless a horse is in the first two categories named – ie the Stud Book maintained by the Stud Book Authority of Great Britain and Ireland or a Stud Book approved by the International Stud Book Committee – it cannot race on the Flat under BHA rules.
Also that the third and fourth categories named – NTR and AQPS – are to do with NH only.
Its true that the Rules do not express things that baldly and simply, but that is their effect.
As the Rules stand, I think the only way a non-thoroughbred can enter into any race on the Flat in GB is if by some vagary it has found its way into the Stud Book maintained by the Stud Book Authority of Great Britain and Ireland or a Stud Book approved by the International Stud Book Committee.
I vaguely remember going to Wetherby races in my teens, and seeing horses in the race card that showed ‘dam unknown’ or ‘dam by …..’.
This would have been NH racing anyway.
If you go far enough back in NH history, including the Grand National, I’m fairly sure you could find very many horses which were not even close to pure thoroughbred but were out of miscellaneously bred hunter mares put to a TB stallion. Not so common these days I believe (sadly, I think, cos they had the better bone and stamina required to stand up to this sort of racing).
I have a question, just to muddy the waters, re the TB breed all decending from the 3 original stallions from the Middle East.
Assuming these 3 horses had mainly Arabian bloodlines, why has there been, since I was old enough to read about horse breeds, a breed called The ANGLO-ARAB? This was, apparently a straight Arab/ TB cross but recognised as a breed in its own right. But even though there are now many horses racing under the Arabic Racing rules now which are exactly this cross, why are they never described as Anglo-Arab. Does this breed now technically not exist?
While I am having a little ramble, I would like to say that, having ridden a few TBs with varying levels of pleasure, my all-time favourite breed just has to be the pure Arabian, of which I’ve ridden quite a few, including stallions.
Such great incredible beauty, so much strength, speed and toughness, so much intelligence and sense, all packed into that superb little body. What a horse !!
No wonder the desert peoples called them "Drinker of the Wind".Yes, I know I’ve gone off topic. I apologise.
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