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If Frankel wins the Guineas i will give Fist my Crown! He still looks like he has No improvement in him whatsoever and the race was an Anti-Climax for one so hyped up! I will get a price about
Dream Ahead
for the Guineas now! Well done to those who have snaffled double figure prices on the winner for next year,you have at least the price on your side!
You’re judgement is worse now than ever. If that’s what a crown does to your grey matter you can keep it
Everything that could have gone wrong for Frankel went wrong and he’s put the behind him and won well.
I don’t know how many words I typed out to say Dream Ahead was flattered due to the horses he beat not acting on the ground and not being that good to start with.
Frankel has been litten up like a firecracker in his last 3 races and he’s still ababy. You write him off if you like but nothing I’ve seen this season looks in the same class.
You say he won’t improve which no one knows for sure but I awould ask does he need to?. He’s Already a better horse than this years winner.
Don’t forget who trains the horse. How many people have written of Twice Over who just won the Champion Stakes for the season after he flopped behind Cape Blanco. The man is a genius and if he says the horse should improve my cash would be firmly on him
Hi Fist Glad to know he is not the same class as Master of the Hounds. Gives some hope of overturning the winner next year.Not really impressed by the Dewhurst winner. Beat a nobody by 2 1/4 lengths. To be expected but not impressive.
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Never mind Fist. When folks death ride a horse like Frankel they do it until they believe they’ve been proven correct.
Let’s just hope Frankel comes back 100% next year so we can enjoy the comedy as others continue to deny his ability.
Time will probably tell that he was flattered by his Dewhurst run. Had everything his own way on a day where nothing is coming from off the pace other than Frankel and he could be a complete freak.
End of Part 1.I look forward to Part 2,his 3yo career! Lets leave it at that for now Fist,there"s plenty of top class racing to come!
A late boost for the irish horses. The second was just a novice in that company. Master of the Hounds is a better horse than R.O’Connor according to Fist. I was somewhat disappointed with the race.The winner won by 2+ lengths but somehow did not show as much as I had expected.The second and third are not top of the class in Ireland.How could so few horses make such a mess of the start? Good thing Murtagh was not riding one of the other horses. He would be in before the stewards.
Maybe I should have looked at this more closely long before the Dewhurst was run. There seems to be a view that Frankel’s win should not be rated too highly because Dream Ahead did not run to his best form. If that is the case, why did the Official Handicapper, Timeform, Racing Post and others not take the same view about Dream Ahead’s win in the Middle Park? He beat Strong Suit and Approve by nine lengths, but they finished only one-and-a-half lengths in front of Foghorn Leghorn whose best form was to win a Nursery off a mark of 85, and then get beaten 9 lengths off a mark of 90. It seems obvious that neither Strong Suit nor Approve ran anywhere near their best, but Dream Ahead’s rating has been calculated as if they did. Maybe a more reliable form line is with two French races: Dream Ahead beating beating Tin Horse by one-and-a-half lengths in the Prix Morny, and Wootton Bassett beating Tin Horse by two-and-a-half lengths in the Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere. That would mean Dream Ahead’s official rating would be about 117 rather than 128, assuming he and Tin Horse progressed at the same rate in the six weeks between the two races. Wherever Dream Ahead’s true rating is I fancy it is closer to the 117 (his rating after the Prix Morny) than the 128.
It looks as though several ratings experts let themselves get carried away by one run where the other good horses did not run to their previous form. It is nice to know that experts sometimes act like novices. It teaches us all to trust our own opinions.
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Fair comments, Marginal Value.
I’m surprised Fist isn’t using Glor Na Mara, who was beaten further by Pathfork in the National and finished just ahead of the "handicap or Listed class" Strong Suit in the Phoenix, to tell us why the Dewhurst form isn’t worth a bean.
Then again, he backed the winner; if he hadn’t I’m sure we’d have been treated to a world class deconstruction of a race in which Roderic ‘The Pig’ O’Connor finished second.
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Probably a blessing that you’re not in charge of RFC’s marketing strategy, Max; as a spectacle, that was crap.
Crap, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.
Dewhurst today: a spectacular sight.
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Stop being silly man
The reason I didn’t bring in Glor Na Mara into it in the way you suggest is Jim Bolger is adamant he’s capable of much better.
I had this out with Timeform stating they were a mile of the mark with the Rating and what their reps said was. was long these line "To ignore the fact it was a group race is crazy you cannot just cast it aside" "
He then went on to say that Irish Fields win in the Prix Robert Papin ws the horse who backed their rating up.
Goes to prove you can just about justify anything as MV points out Foghorn Leghorn was right there with him.
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Already covered this fellow in the Dewhurst thread, Easy lead, crap time probaly not in the same class as Master of the Hounds despite beating him.
I reckon he’s only here for the PR while the real O’Brien horse sneaks off to the very winable Racing Post next week. If he were that good that’s where he would be going I reckon.
I’d rather bet John McCririck to win the 100 mts at the next Olympics than throw miney away on him.
You don’t half talk some shyte at times Fist
Geez I got that one wrong…….I can hardly say Dream Ahead ran below form to defend myself
Well done anyone who got on…nice pay day.
Can’t agree with the commentator saying he’s their Guineas horse as something had to finish 2nd and 2 of the big 3 flopped…….Master of the Hounds did look the better horse that day and it wouldn’t make any sense for AOB to run his best horse here when he could have gone to the Racing Post and had a Group 1 under his belt.
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Hi Fist Glad to know he is not the same class as Master of the Hounds. Gives some hope of overturning the winner next year.Not really impressed by the Dewhurst winner. Beat a nobody by 2 1/4 lengths. To be expected but not impressive.
You missed the big picture Andy.
As I said in another oist this wasn’t a showpiece like when there was no danger in the Royal Lodge. Tom Queally rode him to win arcae today and had there been better horses in the race I think it’s safe to say he would have done the same to them.
TQ hasn’t even pushed him he’s gone out done the buisiness very professionaly and as Ian points out the 2nd most likley was flattered.
Did anyone that went racing notice if he’s still a bit low on his withers? looked to me on video that he is…..Good sign that he’s still got some growing to do and with that normaly comes improvement.
Looked like Dream Ahead and Saamidd bounced and Frankel was probably below his eye popping Ascot best.
Frankel is by far the best and by some distance the one to beat in the Guineas.
I havent quite thrown away my ante post on Zoffany yet…especially if the turf is firm in May.- Total Posts 102
Think anyone taking the 5/4 or less about the 2000 must be barking mad. IMO the second has ran a cracker for one that is less experienced and there could even be other dangers lurking across the Irish Sea, not even to mention the Fahey one.
It is my humble opinion that Frankel is much more developed than the rest and who knows what lies ahead in the next 7-8 months
I think time will prove that this was a very impressive effort from Frankel … very few horses at this stage of their career would recover from such a hefty bump at the start and get lit up to such a point that the jockey was still fighting for his head pretty much to halfway AND still be able to quicken impressively when the question was asked … interpret the form any way you want, but this is one bloody good horse … if he learns to settle I see no reason why he shouldn’t stay further than a mile … looking forward to next May already … isn’t it a great sight to see a horse like this in full flow ? … people that think going racing is all about betting and winning money have obviously never experienced getting close up and watching these beautiful thoroughbreds strut their stuff around a parade ring … disappointing from his two main market rivals but a great read from Francome pre-race who was clearly of the opinion that Dream Ahead had gone over.
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So Strong Suit discredits Dream Ahead’s Middle Park form having been "comfortably beaten" by Zoffany in the Phoenix, but Glor Na Mara, who finished second in Ireland, doesn’t do the same to the Dewhurst?
It’s no wonder you struggled in the Timeform thread.
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