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1) Fist pleaase give me the quote where Murtagh said RVW was his number 1 Derby contender….he didnt but I will be interested to read the quote that you suggest he did say that.
2) The Alavian form is worthless…run on bottomless ground and a slowly run race. Alavian probably be turning up at Ascot in the Vase!
3) The reason Mourayan was niggled from so early on was because they went a proper gallop today compared to the last day.
Mourayan is a good honest horse but not in the parish of Fame And Glory -simple as that.
For what it’s worth, I thought I read somewhere that Murtagh wants to ride RVW in the Derby.
However, this is what I found whilst searching around….. Doesnt scream out ‘Murtaghs selection’ to me…
For what it’s worth, I thought I read somewhere that Murtagh wants to ride RVW in the Derby.
However, this is what I found whilst searching around….. Doesnt scream out ‘Murtaghs selection’ to me…
Murtagh was saying on Channel 4’s Morning Line that he loves Rip Van Winkle based on his home work wheras Fame And Glory does nothing at home so much so that he was stable second string on his debut.
As for his ride in the Derby he was very non committal as was he about the stables number one for the Derby. After seeing the Derrinstown today he will ride Fame and Glory I’d be absolutely gobsmacked if he didn’t.
Following the race of F. McIver I wonder how will Jim Bolger rate his derby chance? Very promising I would think.Galileo versus Montjue. Coolmore must feel pretty smug right now. Can’t wait for the Dante Stakes. Will Rainbow Quest break the stranglehold of Coolmore?
Murtagh has always said RVW is a top class horse but the jockey himself has stated serious doubts about him staying. Unless a Ballydoyle horse wins the Dante by 10 lengths or a leg falls off Fame And Glory, Murtagh will be riding Fame And Glory….1/10. Repeat….Murtagh has NEVER said RVW was his number 1.
As for the Derrinstown as a trial, the comparison between Fame And Glory and Washington Irving is a non-runner…the horses compare in anyway.
The Ballysax/Derrinstown Derby trials are top class trials for the Derby.
With all due respect Aidan i’m sure youre sweet on your opinions, but are you determined to waiver everyone elses opinions in the process?
The Derrinstown has not provided the Derby winner for thr last 7 years and whilst I appreciate what youre saying (a la Galileo, High Chaparral) I still believe it currently provides weak favourites on the basis of its past status
Very disappointing for John Oxx who rated Mourayan right up there with Sea the Stars.Where does that leave the Guineas form?
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Let’s give you that point Aiden as it seems whoever wrote it was wrong.
But you’re way of the mark and missing the obvious.
I’ve watched all of Mourayan races and never seen him under pressure like he was today and so far from home. He is normally either tracking the leaders or chasing the leaders up but never like that today.
You say it was the pace and that’s the way the horse runs. For want of a better word I totally disagree and maintain the horse ran like a cow
f the horse is lazy as you first said and was going to be taken off his feet by a strong pace Aiden why on earth did John Oxx’s rank outsider make it so strong?
Obviously they thought that was what he needed as last time they met they were going way too slow for him and that’s why he got into the mess he did.
No one is saying he wont run well or even win the Derby what I am saying based on todays race he most certainly should not be 3/1 fav to do so.
Had the distances been 5 lengths and 5 lengths and Mouayan wasn’t a beaten horse before the winner even challenged, then his price would be more justifiable, but as it is I can’t agree with it.
Sea The Stars wont stay 1m4f, Andy, so in the context of the Derby the Guineas form is irrelevant imo. I rarely get involved with antepost but I’ve happily laid him at 4/1 for Epsom.
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He might just get the trip at Epsom CR. This horse did everything very easily in the guineas and found that bit extra when required.
He’s apparantly bred to just about get it and he travels very well. Horses like him that tend not to use a lot of energy during the earlier parts of a race often get distances beyond what their pedigree would suggest.
To me, everytime something wins a race the bookies make him fav.
If it’s one of AOB unless it’s blatantly obvious he’s not good enough they cut them to the bone.
Gawd only knows what will happen if Crowded House wins the Dante doing handstands.
Gan Amhras is no more a miler than flying in the air and he has still managed to win a decent race beating masterofthehorse easily and finish 3rd in the Guineas. The horse is crying out for a mile and a half.
I would argue that is the best pointer to the Derby we have seen so far.
Harbinger’s trainer has worked many a mircale in his time. I believe they are going to give him one more run a couple of weeks before the Derby if he keeps improving. He’s also a horse we don’t know enough about but obviously SMS thinks an aful lot of him.
The Derby is still wide open as far as I am concerned. Nothing has jumped up and said I am the next Nijinsky.
The winner today won well and he’s a nice horse but he took a bit too much time getting there against a beaten horse to be jumping on at 3/1
The Derrinstown has not provided the Derby winner for thr last 7 years and whilst I appreciate what youre saying (a la Galileo, High Chaparral) I still believe it currently provides weak favourites on the basis of its past status
2008 Derrinstown Derby: Casual Conquest 3rd Epsom
2007 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Archipenko (unplaced but subsequent Group 1 winner)
2006 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Dylan Thomas (short headed place in the Derby subsequent multiple Group 1 winner from Youmzain)
2004 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Yeats
2003 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Alamshar winner and The Great Gatsby runner up. Alamshar went on to win the Irish Derby and The Great Gatsby placed at Epsom.
2002 Derrinstown Derby Trial: High Chaparral
2001 Derrinstown Derby Trial: GalileoNot forcing any opinion on you what so ever but to suggest this trial is no longer the trial it was just seems bizarre to me. Regularly is producing horses that place in the Derby and go on to be Champions.
Gan Amhras (a colt I like) beat Masterofthehorse in a Naas maiden with both having their first start.
Mourayan has met Hail Caesar 3 times and has beaten him on each occasion.
Beresford Stakes – by 3 1/2 lengths
Ballysax Stakes – by 3 lengths
Derrinstown Derby Trial – by 3 lenghtsAnd we are led to believe the Oxx horse did not run to form today?
Fist, you expected Mourayan to win well today. Aren’t you making the classic mistake – and we’ve all done it – of refusing to accept a result at face value because it doesn’t fit in with your preconceptions? To my eyes, Mourayan ran a very similar race today to the one he ran last time out and the Form Book says as much, too. If you’re right and Mourayan is a good horse then by twice giving him weight and a comprehensive beating Fame And Glory is showing himself to be a top class one.
The Derrinstown has not provided the Derby winner for thr last 7 years and whilst I appreciate what youre saying (a la Galileo, High Chaparral) I still believe it currently provides weak favourites on the basis of its past status
2008 Derrinstown Derby: Casual Conquest 3rd Epsom
2007 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Archipenko (unplaced but subsequent Group 1 winner)
2006 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Dylan Thomas (short headed place in the Derby subsequent multiple Group 1 winner from Youmzain)
2004 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Yeats
2003 Derrinstown Derby Trial: Alamshar winner and The Great Gatsby runner up. Alamshar went on to win the Irish Derby and The Great Gatsby placed at Epsom.
2002 Derrinstown Derby Trial: High Chaparral
2001 Derrinstown Derby Trial: GalileoNot forcing any opinion on you what so ever but to suggest this trial is no longer the trial it was just seems bizarre to me. Regularly is producing horses that place in the Derby and go on to be Champions.
Gan Amhras (a colt I like) beat Masterofthehorse in a Naas maiden with both having their first start.
Appreciate what youre saying Aidan, the race most definitely produces champions from the top drawer. However, I’m referring to it as A derby trial in the last 3/4 years.
In the last 3/4 years the Dante has become a bigger pointer towards the Derby winner. Motivator won it in 2005, Authorized in 2007 and Tartan Bearer in 2008. The only blip is Septimus from a race which was run on extremely soft ground.
I’ll offer up a gentlemans bet (no money involved) that the winner of the Dante will place higher in the Derby than Fame & Glory
By your logic I could have said after the years 1998,1999,2000,2001,2002 and 2003 the Dante was not the trial it once was for the Derby as it did not produce the winner. In doing that you would have ruled out Kris Kin, North Light, Motivator and Authorized for the Derby since then.
The Derrinstown Derby trial since 2000 has produced 3 (exceptional) Derby winners, Dylan Thomas (within 1/4l of winning it), The Great Gatsby (within a length of winning it), Casual Conquest (third in the race) etc.
Regardless of what happens to Fame And Glory, by any measure it is a major guide to Epsom and beyond.
Aidan, if Black Bear Island or Freemantle hack up this week at York (which is quite possible) would you still believe Fame & Glory was the best bet of the AOB picks?
Aidan, if Black Bear Island or Freemantle hack up this week at York (which is quite possible) would you still believe Fame & Glory was the best bet of the AOB picks?
I did state earlier, it would have to be a run like that (an impressive win in the Dante) or something to go wrong with Fame And Glory for Murtagh not to be on the Montjeu colt. It would not surprise me in the least to see a good showing from Freemantle – a colt I rate highly.
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