- This topic has 82 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 1 month ago by
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In fairness you are
Joncol,
No matter how you disguise it, you are saying in effect….
"You can see why one horse’s life should be worth more than another".
That is Cormack’s point.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
As I have said now for the 8th time I dont agree with the race so therefore I dont like to see it run fullstop.
I would only run my horse in the national if I had to i.e prize money for training fee.
If I ever had a choice I wouldnt run it no matter how much it had or hadnt won.
I have already mentioned however that I have never owned a horse so therefore cannot comment on financial pressures. I have said repeatidly that I understand why owners run their horse, I have never said I agree, there is a difference.
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"Horse B – tries his heart out but not quite as good as Horse A, has still to win decent money, you’re quite happy for him to be pitched into the fray at Aintree."
Cormac15 if you can point out any peice where I have said I would be happy for my horse to run in the National then I will give you a medal.
I have repeatidly said I can understand why owners run their horses, I have never said I would be happy with it.
I have also said I dont agree with the race so where you have gotten that I would be happy for my horse to run in the race is beyond me.
I think you a reading more than I am typing….
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Anyway I think whats apparent here is you think Denman should run and I dont.
Forums are a great way to express your view on the sport, but I have to say you dismissing a posters view as complete rubbish does nothing to attract new posters….
Just a thought, anyway lets agree to disagree.
I would only run my horse in the national if I had to i.e prize money for training fee.
If I ever had a choice I wouldnt run it no matter how much it had or hadnt won.
Hmmm.
Read those two again to yourself mate and you may see where some confusion is coming from?
I agree with the point Ginger made that it’s nowhere near the danger it used to be now and I’d have no reservations at all in running a horse in the race. I’d also argue that for the majority of connections the prize money isn’t the main reason for entering their horse in the national…
Joncol,
We have never said you’d be "happy" to see anything run.
But you do say you can "understand" an owner running a horse who has not won much. Yet do NOT understand why an owner would allow a horse who’s won a lot of money run.
That is double standards.
Just because a horse has not won as much as the next, does not mean he should be treated differently. Every horse’s life should be worth as much as the next.Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Zamorston
21 Mar 2010, 01:13
by Zamorston on 21 Mar 2010, 01:13
Joncol wrote:
I would only run my horse in the national if I had to i.e prize money for training fee.If I ever had a choice I wouldnt run it no matter how much it had or hadnt won
Just to clear up the above statement;
I would only run my horse If I could no longer fund its training fees myself personally.
If my horse had won a million pound I would not run it
If my horse had won ten thousand pounds but I could still personally afford fees I still would not run it, hence the comment "no matter how much it had or hadnt won"
Anyway I think whats apparent here is you think Denman should run and I dont.
Forums are a great way to express your view on the sport, but I have to say you dismissing a posters view as complete rubbish does nothing to attract new posters….
Just a thought, anyway lets agree to disagree.
Don’t take it to heart mate, stick around.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
I think Im alone with my thoughts here but thats fair enough it is a forum and it would be boring if we all agree.
However lets treath this case as if it was a family memeber or friend.
Your brother for example in his 40’s has just had heart problems, Your doctor tells him to take a break and time off work and then gradually return to a life with less stress and workload.
Denman is a 10 year old whom has had heart problems, he has had his break, he has now returned to his usual workload and is now going to be asked to take on the most challenging workload of his life at the older age of 11.
Humans are not horses and vice versa but certainly makes me think….
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Gingertipster
21 Mar 2010, 01:21
by Gingertipster on 21 Mar 2010, 01:21
Joncol,We have never said you’d be "happy" to see anything run.
But you do say you can "understand" an owner running a horse who has not won much. Yet do NOT understand why an owner would allow a horse who’s won a lot of money run.
That is double standards.
Just because a horse has not won as much as the next, does not mean he should be treated differently. Every horse’s life should be worth as much as the next.value is everythingGinger – The scenario where I "understand" an owner running a horse who has not won much is where they can no longer personally afford training fees i.e the only other option is to sell the horse and possibly putting his future at risk i.e note Desert Quest
I dont see how it is double stanards
1) If a horse has won enough money to secure its future then I would not run
2) If a horse has not won enough money to secure its future but I can still maitain training fees then I also would not run
3) Where a horse has not won enough money to secure its future and I cannot maintain its training fees anymore than I can justify running to try maintain its future.
This is not double standards.
Each scenarios makes every attempt to keep the horses welfare first.
The option where I "understand" why owners running their horses is in my view a last resorts before you have to sell horse and put in the hands of god knows who, where anything can happen to him.
I do realise that all runners in the National are not running there as a last resorts and therefore I cannot justify their participation but I do understand those who run in an attempt to secure its future.
It is not double standards, If It appears that way than I am very poor at getting my point across moreso than being guilty of double standards for a horses welfare
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By the way everyone has talked about how they would love to see the spectacle….
I doubt somehow the horse would love it…
Perhaps the saying in racing, the horse comes first is becoming less relevant in the sport.
If the horse did indeed come first then its a no brainer – the horse does not run. The only argument for running here is
1) Great spectacle for owner, and racing fans
2) Prize Money for connections.
3) Glory of winning the National.
There doesnt seem to be an argument as to why Denman himself would want to run in this race.
You have to go back 40 years to find a horse aged more than 10 that has won the Gold Cup. The chances of Kauto Star or Denman reaching the heights they have already reached are very small.
I would have thought that watching the mistakes made by Kauto in the Gold Cup would have brought to the front of the owners minds the risk that the horse will not come home.
Older horses have won the National, but these have mainly been horses with very modest achievements, the National apart, with few other races won. They got lucky – the better horses came to grief in the race.
The words of J J O’Neill are apposite
"He was a lovely horse, a grand character. We’d have won the National easily that year. Cantering at the front we were when he was killed at Becher’s second time round. Losing the National meant nothing, losing Alverton was a tragedy."
I hope retirement is high on the agenda for both.
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Unfortuantely I dare say Findlay would consider;
Winning the National means everything,Risking Denamn to do so means nothing….
I dont like Findlay,
I dont think he really cares about the wellbeing of his horses at the end of the day.
Take Desert Quest for example
He wins the county hurdle 2006.
Upon winning at Ascot in October of 2006 Findlay describes him as the most exciting and quickest hurdler since Istabraq.
The horse clearly starts to decline in early 2007 so Findlay gets rid of him. One year later the horse is dead.
Now this is a horse who won Mr Findlay over £145,000 in hurdle prize money. If a horse won me that sort of money I would feel obliged to retire him in good health and look after him.
But who am I to comment on how Mr Findlay looks after his horses…
By the way Ouninpohja is also dead although The Racing Post have not updated his status….
Just feel Findlay is more interested in the prize that goes with the National race rather than the glory…
This notion that Findlay doesn’t look after his horses is ridiculous. Read the story about his greyhound "big fella thanks" and how well Findlay looked after him in his retirement. I have also heard he frequently gives to Horse Racing charities.
He has always said that the horse essentially belongs to Paul Barber and he is "the apple of Paul’s eye". I cant see Barber running Denman if there was any risk. I remember Findlay saying back after Denman’s heart problem that if there was any concern over Denman’s wellbeing that they would retire him immediately. Hardly the words of a greedy owner.
Remember that if his owners hadn’t the "balls" to run him twice in the hennessy under top weight, we would never have the memories of those great performances. They could have taken the easy option of running him in the numerous grade 1 3 milers. They haven’t been afraid to pitch Denman in at the deep end, part of the reason he is held so dear by the public. His legacy will be heightened further by an appearance in the national.
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Find it hard to believe after the treatement of Desert Quest.
One minute he loves him, the next he gets rid…..
Not a nice owner imo
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What Grade One at that time of year could they have run him in????????
There were none which he could of won.
Haydock doesnt suit him – therefore ruling out the Betfair Chase
The Charlie Hall isnt a Grade One
What numerous Grade Ones at that time of year are you referring to?
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