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Henderson hasnt had the greatest ammuntion for it, but we will soon see with Long Run and Punchestowns next year.
Denman likes to be in charge and didnt take too kindly to the way Tony rode him.Sam knows him inside out and for me would be my choice of jockey for the Gold Cup. Thankfully Denman came back unscathed.
Anyone wanting AP McCoy to **** up today got just that and more,he couldn"t have made a more spectacular exit if he"d tried! The first mistake was forgiveable,but he should have given Denman time to recover,instead he went for a bigger than big one and that is what caused the horse to fall! Denman was a tired horse when he made the first mistake,irrelevant of what his weight was prior to the race,he was an unfit horse! Connections thought (including Ruby) he could still have won even if AP fell and remounted,maybe tongue in cheek but no way was that the Denman that is unbeaten around Newbury!I have supported Sam from day 1 but not even he would have won on Denman today,he would have still been beaten even if he had stood up! Poor show all round!
Denman didnt look uncomfortable or tired before the first mistake, I just think he wasnt going as fast as expected which let his rivals ask a question and under pressure a mistake has come.
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Henderson’s record with non-novice staying chasers is very poor in comparison to Nicholls. Not a great comparison I’d say.
Nicholls’ record illustrates that he has NO PEERS at getting them ready for the big one. Sure he makes the odd error, as Grasshopper has said elsewhere it’s hardly an exact science as all the great trainers would no doubt vouch.
Wasn’t talkng about chasers in particular. Nicky runs nearly every horse who’s Cheltenham bound a bit under par as do most trainers. Over the years he’s become amaster at getting them just right to win but PN seems to overdo it at times to me.
I think people on here jump to conclusions and can’t see the wood for the trees. The AON means very little to PN or Findlay & Barber they are thinking Gold Cup and as you say no one gets them ready for the big one like PN.
I just read an article on the race and two interesting statements caught my eye.
One from Ruby: Tony never looked that happy on him and AP himslef said "I’m not saying he wouldn’t have won he might have picked up and ran all the way up the straight if I had hit him a smack…..I’m not sure"
Might have is along way away from would have…If that’s not telling people the horse wasn’t fit or wasn’t going like a winner then I don’t know what is.
One thing I did notice in this sorry debacle, was Ruby Walsh’s sudden frenetic urgings on Tricky Trickster when he realised that AP and Denman had not kept to the script.
His body language seemed to suggest that, "hey, if the Tank aint winning this race ( as planned ) , then WE ( the Nicholls team ) certainly are !
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I was there today and I think people’s slightly malicious comments about connections are a bit out of line. Paul Barber was interviewed in the parade ring early in the day and the impression I get is that all he has is the horses best interests at heart. Same with Findlay.
It was the first time I had seen Denman in the flesh today and to be honest he didn’t look heavy as some people are suggesting, if anything he looked a little soft, possibly even lacking a bit of muscle mass. I think he’ll improve hugely if his confidence hasn’t been dented.
I need to watch the replay of the race but McCoy seemed a little keen to fire him at every fence which is a mistake imo given that Denman generally bosses his races on his own and Ruby or Sam normally let him make the decisions as he is such a good jumper. If he rides him again I think McCoy would try not to "ride" him quite so much and let him get on with it..
Definitely not game over as far as the Gold Cup goes.
All the people I know who criticised the choice said it was because they believed that he would put Denman on the floor because his style wouldn’t sit with the horse, and it didn’t.
Ok, personally I’ve never been a fan of AP, but I adore Denman and if I thought he was right for the horse I’d have been happy enough. But he’s just not somehow. Remember, Hen Knight once said he wasn’t right for Best Mate; there’s a big difference between being the "best jockey" and the "best jockey for the horse".
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Denman is clearly a good horse, but he reminds me of the long distance runner David bedford, active in the 1970s – world-beater when getting his own way by striding out in front and leaving the rest of the field in his wake, but severely limited otherwise and vulnerable to smarter types with a bit more nous.
McCoy is a good jockey, but you almost certainly can’t have two such strong personalities, each trying to get his own way, without something going horribly wrong. it certainly did today.
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Never have I heard so much rubbish spoken by so many people on one thread. With the notable exception of Gaz and a couple of others.
How convenient to blame AP for the fall. Especially for those who were against Sam Thomas being replaced.
Denman made an almost identical error when falling at Aintree, when not fully fit (not that Nicholls knew that) and Madison challenged. Yet who was on Denman that day? Was it AP? No.
Denman was not fully fit today (based on what I saw in the flesh at the course). Not in the same peak condition as in November (imo). Something to work on in physique and a dull coat. No point blaming PN for the UR either, still fit enough to run well and win. Remember after the Hennessey connections saying Denman won’t run again before the Gold Cup. Yet something changed their minds. Could it be they realised Denman needed a run to bring him to full fitness?
Many if not most horses, from most if not all trainers, are not fully wound up for their “prep” race before Cheltenham.
Denman should have been good enough (even without being fully fit) to win this easily. And to my eyes it seemed so, until they came around the home turn. Quite evident (before the first mistake) Denman would need to be pushed to win. First mistake, which AP did well to sit on. Some people seem to think AP asked for too big a jump or did something else wrong. Well Sam Thomas has often asked Denman for a “big one” too, and as said, what about that Aintree fall? AP did give Denman plenty of time between mistakes; In front at the first error, some way behind Niche Market at the ditch.
There is a lot of rubbish talked about Ruby, does not make mistakes. Even today, I heard (don’t know if it’s true but the chap usually knows his stuff) Inchadailly Rock was seen entering the horse ambulance after the first. Am sure if AP had ridden him we’d hear “should’ve pulled him up after jumping so violently right-handed”. And what about Master Minded, he was “asked up” or came out of Ruby’s hands (whichever is right) two out, only just getting to the other side. Then at the last, Master Minded made an almighty blunder. Sure if AP had been on board we would hear “jockey error”. Sure it was a good recovery, but Ruby was greatly helped by his mount remaining straight. If AP gets the blame for Denman’s blunder then why doesn’t Ruby get the blame for Master Minded’s? The difference, one unseated the other didn’t. The reason why MM did not unseat…. Luck.
Ruby rides for the best trainer in Britain and the best trainer in Ireland. No wonder he has a good record in the best races. A jockey who rides a lot of the best horses will win an awful lot of the best races. Where as AP rides for Jonjo and is on few of the best horses. Therefore, he will not win as many of the best races as Ruby. Ruby and AP are both brilliant jockeys, best we have ever seen.
Why isn’t AP the right jockey for Denman?
If I were an owner and wanted a sound judge of pace for a bold jumping front runner; there is no-one better.Most horses have quirks.
Kauto Star, normally a sound jumper, can make a howler at the last. Probably distracted by crowd noise (imo). Do we blame Ruby?
Master Minded does not like being crowded. Noticed when Ruby can’t lead, he keeps MM wide for an unhindered view of each fence.Denman is a bold jumping front runner who can make the occasional bad blunder (under any jockey), particularly when not fully fit. He also is not that keen nowadays at the start. It would not be the biggest surprise if planting himself one day. Though less likely than Twist Magic doing the same.
I’d rather Sam Thomas kept the ride on Denman as he’s done nothing wrong (including Aintree. But to blame AP or PN is (imo) wrong. It’s reasonable for Harry Findlay to want the most consistent jockey available to ride. Over all, AP makes less mistakes than Sam. If anyone is to be blamed for today (and I don’t blame anyone) it is Denman himself.
Value Is EverythingId hate to say i told you so but hey!
Only jokin but it was so obvious that was going to happen, im glad they decided to put mccoy on him for the Aon because it gives them 5 weeks to find another jok! Personally i think Grahem Lee would be a great choice, a proper horseman, as iv said before, Mccoy is great at ‘bullying’ a horse into winning at smaller tracks, but not many jump for him, and as soon as mccoy started pushing Denman changed and looked very uncomfortable with him. Look at the jump mccoy got at the last in the hurdle.
If he is on his back in the gold cup he will jump fine until coming down the hill, mccoy will go for everything being very aggressive and will hit the deck, when beaten at the 2nd last if not before.
Another thing for people to think about, that was Denmans 6th run around Newbury and he has jumped perfect all other times and knows the track VERY well, so imo it was obviously down to Mccoy that he hit the deck.
I hope they either put sam back on or change to a quality rather than quantity jockeyNever have I heard so much rubbish spoken by so many people on one thread. With the notable exception of Gaz and a couple of others.
Well you being "Judge and Jury" should perhaps realise that maybe the concencus of opinion are right and may i also add,when the dust has settled and AP is interviewed before the Gold cup,he will admit he made an "error of judgement" to put it politely,which caused Denman to fall! we"ll see!
Ginge, perhaps if you made your points a little more succinct people might take more note. Your first line was controversial so I started reading but got bored.
Even though i don’t blame McCoy for today, i do think he will ride Denman differently.
He will get Nicholls, Walsh, etc… telling him if he went wrong and where he went wrong, and put it this way, there will be no-one keener to right a wrong, come Gold Cup day.
Can anyone remember the mistakes Iris’s Gift used to make when Mccoy rode him, When Gereaty rode him he jumped well
Grahem Lee would be a great choice, a proper horseman, as iv said before, Mccoy is great at ‘bullying’ a horse into winning at smaller tracks,
but not many jump for him
, and as soon as mccoy started pushing Denman changed and looked very uncomfortable with him. Look at the jump mccoy got at the last in the hurdle.
If he is on his back in the gold cup he will jump fine until coming down the hill, mccoy will go for everything being very aggressive and will hit the deck, when beaten at the 2nd last if not before.
Another thing for people to think about, that was Denmans 6th run around Newbury and he has jumped perfect all other times and knows the track VERY well, so imo it was obviously down to Mccoy that he hit the deck.
I hope they either put sam back on or change to a quality rather than quantity jockeyYe’ right.
When AP comes to a fence, he can see a stride from some way back, better than any other jockey. He’s a master at getting a horse to lengthen it’s stride to get to a fence in the correct position. Instead of sitting still and losing ground at the fence like many jockeys. To say "not many jump for him" is the opposite of the truth.
Get Out Of Here is a hold up horse who is not used to being in front. He’s also a novice. Not surprising the horse made a mistake at the last, it’s probably never heard a crowd like it and distracted.
So what excuse does Ruby have when lucky to get away with a massive blunder at the last and aking Master Minded up too soon at the second last?
Value Is Everything
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