- This topic has 204 replies, 63 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
Some interesting opinions…
I was among those doubting McCoy’s suitability to Denman and, I’ve noticed thus far, many have not wavered in their respective belief. Those who questioned the appointment of the fourteen-time champion jockey have highlighted this as proof that McCoy is not the right man for the job, whereas those who supported the decision have looked high and low for, some might say valid, excuses.
On the topic of Denman’s fitness…
Denman has gone particularly well fresh in the past and his two Hennessy victories were achieved on his seasonal bow. Denman looked fit enough to do himself justice today and the vibes were a lot more positive than when he won his first Newbury showpiece. This is what Paul Barber said after his first Hennessy:
“That was an awesome performance first time out. I didn’t believe he would do that. I hadn’t put anyone away because he will improve for the run. You just have to look at him to see that. He is having a good blow there.”
Niche Market, who was challenging Denman for the lead coming to the fourth last, was beaten 7L into third at Newbury when in receipt of 29lbs and had a mountain to climb today off level weights. In my opinion, Denman didn’t need to be 100%.
One could argue that Niche Market would have finished ahead of Denman had the latter remained on his feet, and for the Irish National winner to reverse 7L and 29lbs, Denman must have been operating at an unacceptable level of fitness – a level of fitness that should see Paul Nicholls hauled before the officials to explain this poor showing, if you believe that to be the case.
Not long ago, I saw Master Minded beat Mahogany Blaze (a horse similarly inferior to Master Minded as Niche Market was to Denman) very comfortably in the Game Spirit after a three month absence due to a fractured rib. Are we to believe that Paul Nicholls sent two horses with identical statures to the racecourse with such a gulf in their respective fitness levels?
On the topic of Denman’s attitude…
“Forget the anthropomorphisms, like any bully (I don’t mean that in a derogatory manner) perhaps ‘The Tank’ sulks when another horse fails to be intimidated by his presence and doesn’t shirk a fight.”
I posted this after his fall at Aintree last season and it’s something I considered after his initial defeat to Madison Du Berlais at Kempton. Denman, so famous for ‘breaking hearts’, appears to have his own mental frailties. If another horse has the temerity to eyeball Denman and not yield, they have put a huge dent in his armour, in my opinion. Denman feeds off the fear of his rivals and beats them into submission. He beat up Niche Market, but Bob Buckler’s horse didn’t stay down and, inevitably, broke Denman’s heart.
On the topic of McCoy…
I read with interest (and chuckled) that many on here come to the conclusion that Sam Thomas has not contributed to Denman’s heroics. ‘He was just a passenger’ appeared to be the general opinion of many. Well, McCoy was a mere passenger for the first circuit – just sat quietly in the saddle and let Denman strut his stuff. – then push came to shove. McCoy, frantically looking between his legs and down both flanks, clearly wasn’t happy. Now, I said that Kauto Star must have got inside McCoy’s head after all these years and I expected to see this in the Gold Cup, but I never expected to witness it today. This uncertainty can filter down to the horse and Denman was clearly flustered when he made the initial mistake and McCoy made a huge mistake when asking a beaten horse for a big jump at the third last.
Denman will still pose a major threat to Kauto Star in the Gold Cup, but McCoy will now be under immense pressure and it’s impossible to fancy ‘The Tank’ with great confidence. In my opinion, this result was far from a disaster and the uncertainty adds some spice to the Gold Cup mix.
Game on…
Its crazy talking about the end of his career at this stage. One so so run when he wasnt completely tuned up?
And what about Denman? Same applies to him too
Very very disappointing…………I’ll not wave the white flag for the Gold Cup yet though, as someone said earlier AP has to spend plenty of time at Nicholls to get to know and get the feel of Denman. The big race is still on IMHO.
Sir
This was not the great Lester Piggott getting beat in a photo in The Arc on your exemplary namesake, (God I loved that horse!!)this was AP getting beat on a 1-7 chance in a field not fit to lick his hooves by setting him wrongly at his fences
Hmmm you could say Lesters was worse!!!
getting in a box and being taken back down the field by weakening horses.
One error and it all went wrong unfortunately……….it happens………. he pinged the cross fence and all seemed well at that point…….McCoy is better on hurdlers than chasers but there is still time for the horse to come good.
Denman had his mind on other things. It was a bit like, you know, one of those dates we’ve all been on where instinctively, you know from the outset that you’re out with the wrong person and you long to be back in the arms of your former lover. But hey ho, we’ll soldier on for the evening.
The conversation is stilted and for some reason the two of you just can’t seem to synchronise and your eyes start glazing over. What am I doing here time? I think when he heard Niche Market coming from behind his heart started to flutter, half-hoping it was Sam come to the rescue. When he saw it wasn’t Sam he just went to pieces.Hmmm you could say Lesters was worse!!!
getting in a box and being taken back down the field by weakening horses.
At least he didn’t end up on his ar*e
Seriously You’ll never find me blaming Ardross!!!Sovies – you know what, I thought exactly the same (re-looking a bit sore). On the camera shot showing him running away from the finishing line (from behind) he just looked as if he wasn’t quite right. Could have just been that he was pulling himself up at the time though. He did hit the fence hard.
As for ending his career – if every horse who put in a below par run was chivvied off to the paddock then hardly any of them would still be racing.
I’d thought Denman’s best days were behind him before the Hennessey but he put up an astonishing performance then and he could quite easily do it once again IMO.
Could it just be (terrible for so many Denman fans to contemplate I know ! ) that Denman is not the horse that so many seem to think he is ?
To me, it is crazy to try to make out this year’s Gold Cup to be some kind of prize fight between Kauto Star and Denman, and the hype over all of this has just got to the ridiculous stage, with almost a month to go before the Festival.In my opinion, though not a great fan of either horse, Kauto Star is streets ahead of Denman in ability.
Expecting flames, which I always get whenever I dare to criticise Denman.
Hmmm you could say Lesters was worse!!!
getting in a box and being taken back down the field by weakening horses.
At least he didn’t end up on his ar*e
Seriously You’ll never find me blaming Ardross!!! true enoughme neither
It’s simple for me – McCoy is not presenting a horse well at a fence this season and he’s the last man i’d want to book . Today he showed it with his indecision. If AP couldn’t decide whether to go long or short what chance did the poor horse have?
Yes Marb, agreed, he is not just another horse and the Godl Cup is only a month or so away.
However, him not being ready to run at Cheltenham and being retired are two different things.
Anyway – perhaps just ring-rusty today and the run today (assuming he’s not sustained an injury) and another months work and maybe we’ll see the REAL Denman back at Prestbury Park.
- Total Posts 17716
Most of you will know I’ve never been Denman’s most ardent fan although I was one of the very few who said he would come back and come back he did.
Now we have some people saying again he is finished and other blaming Tony McCoy.
I doubt unless he’s injured if that race will have set Denman back 1" and as far as Tony McCoy is concerned I’ve never read so much dribble in all my life. He took a pull he changed his mind……wtf do these people get these ideas from? do you actually watch the racing or do you do make it up as you go along.
When I watched the race I remarked to me friend on the first circuit he wasn’t travelling at all well. Tony was having to ride him to get him to stride on and that shouldn’t have been the case against that lot. Fence after fence he was also having to get him to come up which again is not the usual for Denman.
I’d say without a shadow of a doubt Denman would not have won today even if he hadn’t made that mistake then fell at the next. As far as the mistake goes I’d say AP felt him going and didn’t want to push him into the fence and the big horse put down on him. He did exactly the same thing last season when tiring did he not?
I’d say he was slightly fitter as he was when he took on MDB at Kempton but that horse was no where near 100% today.
I believe the man to blame is PN he does this so often with his horses before the big one. He tries to get them there just fit enough to win and that’s it. He doesn’t have the Henderson knack for it IMO and very often gets it wrong like he has and almost has with Kauto in the past.
I doubt if this will make any difference to what happens in the Gold Cup other than Denman fans getting a bigger price
"I’ve just had a look at him, he hasn’t done a tap. He isn’t blowing at all, there is nothing wrong with him."
PAUL NICHOLLS ~ RP online
Henderson’s record with non-novice staying chasers is very poor in comparison to Nicholls. Not a great comparison I’d say.
Nicholls’ record illustrates that he has NO PEERS at getting them ready for the big one. Sure he makes the odd error, as Grasshopper has said elsewhere it’s hardly an exact science as all the great trainers would no doubt vouch.
Ruby made it quite clear on The Morning Line that he was riding for second place. I’m sure he knows the vibe eminating from Ditcheat as well as anyone and the general consensus from connections was that all was well with Denman.
After the race, he looked gobsmacked and you could see him glancing up the course. I don’t think Paul Nicholls, Paul Barber, Harry Findlay or Ruby expected that kind of performance and it was quite reminiscent of his defeat at Kempton – everyone looked thoroughly dumbfounded after the race.
I’ve never seen such long faces from a stable who had just won such a big race!
Denman looked pretty comfortable to me before the he threw McCoy off him, the pace was hardly any where near Hennessey pace, Glassonbury has obviously found this time he has plenty under his mount this time round with Denman having his own way in front and has went to give McCoy something to think about, once Niche Market has got close, Denman is all over the place, McCoy asking for his first big jump mistimes it totally, the 2nd error was a total joke, all nerves after the 1st error.
There is no way in hell Denman would of lost to that lot if Ruby Walsh had been on his back. That said McCoy would of learned a lot from today and surely the pace in the Gold Cup will help him.
I’ve backed Denman in the last four Festival and I love the horse while my wife (not a big racing fan but has to listen to me
and has 10/12 bets of her own a year) must be his biggest fan but I very much doubt if I/we will be having a bet in this year’s Gold Cup.We fear for his well being…she was in tears today although we didn’t back him
true enough
and has 10/12 bets of her own a year) must be his biggest fan but I very much doubt if I/we will be having a bet in this year’s Gold Cup.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.