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Dead heats…

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  • #1350
    LetsGetRacing
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    • Total Posts 1147

    I always thought dead heats were either settled at half the odds of the selection, or to half the stake (with the full amount being returned).

    I backed Zar Solitario at Leicester this afternoon, at 10/11, who dead heated for first place. Aside from Joe Fanning’s abismal ride (and that isn’t my pocket talking) I have actually lost on the race according to Ladbrokes.

    Is this right, that you can back a ‘winner’ and end up losing?

    (Edited by LetsGetRacing at 4:29 pm on April 12, 2007)

    #51121
    apracing
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    • Total Posts 3089

    <br>Yes – you lose 50% of your stake and the other 50% returns less than that when the selection is odds on.

    AP

    #51124
    LetsGetRacing
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    • Total Posts 1147

    Thanks, ap, though it makes little sense to me (other than ensuring the bookies guarantee a profit on any bet on the favourite).

    Such a bet is, technically, neither a winner nor a loser and so a return equivalent to the stake is the least you would expect.

    (Edited by LetsGetRacing at 4:42 pm on April 12, 2007)

    #51125
    davidbrady
    Member
    • Total Posts 3901

    Well the idea is half you bet won and the other half lost.

    I believ it IS actually possible to back a winner (not a dead-heat) on the tote and still come out a loser. This is because there is no minimum guaranteed return for a tote win dividend!

    #51127
    dave jay
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    • Total Posts 3386

    True david, I believe the minimum return from the tote is 70p .. !

    #51128
    yeatsyeats
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    • Total Posts 2925

    Come off it, you back a jt winner at odds on and expect not to lose money, you would have managed it if you’d backed it on Betfair though.

    The minimum on the Tote was £1.05p for a win but I think may have been reduced to £1.02p. It is impossible to back a winner and lose money.

    (Edited by yeats at 6:05 pm on April 12, 2007)

    #51129
    roryrory
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    Quote: from LetsGetRacing on 4:40 pm on April 12, 2007[br]Thanks, ap, though it makes little sense to me (other than ensuring the bookies guarantee a profit on any bet on the favourite).

    Such a bet is, technically, neither a winner nor a loser and so a return equivalent to the stake is the least you would expect.

    It does, of course, make perfect sense. When a horse wins in a dead heat, it is technically a dead heater for both 1st and 2nd places. If you back it to win, you are a half winner, just as if you lay it to lose you are a half winner. The bet is correctly settled at the appropriate price for half the stake. Anyone who thinks this is somehow a scam for the bookies (and many do) should get a better undestanding of basic maths.

    #51130
    cormack15cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8781

    The world may be against you LGR (bookies, jockey, etc) but the cold hard facts of mathematics favour no one. Just count yourself lucky you collected at all!

    #51131
    Wallace
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    Many years ago a regular punter in our family betting shop who only back unamed favourites had a big bet as usual in a race where the SP’s were 10/11 each of two!

    #51132
    DeadlySins
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    • Total Posts 105

    I believe as you put it ‘if you back a winner’ you should not lose money. You should always get back what you originally staked. I’ve heard a lot of Ladbrokes bad business recently. Good luck in future.

    #51133
    LetsGetRacing
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    • Total Posts 1147

    I would dearly love it if the world were against me corm, I really would, but sadly that isn’t the case (the subsequent banning of Joe Fanning would indicate there may have been a hint of misjudgement in the riding of the horse).

    I’m off to lock myself in my room because ‘they’ are outside and they’re coming to get me…..

    #51134
    Maxilon 5Maxilon 5
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    • Total Posts 2432

    Corm, I have to defend LGR here. Joe Fanning took it mighty easy on the heavily backed favourite. I’d be well peeved had I backed this one, instead of the Dunlop trained future novice hurdler out the back.

    I don’t think the colt stayed, granted, and Leicester has a stiff finish, but Fanning could have made a tad more effort to win the races.

    This is the second time this year too, (the first being a strikingly similar dead heat at Wolverhampton where several pundits noticed his apparent lack of finishing effort).  

    #51135
    BurroughhillBurroughhill
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    • Total Posts 1638

    I’m glad he got a hefty ban. Never mind backing the horse, imagine how peed off the owners/trainer must have felt! A terrible error, and I hope he learns from it.

    #51136
    yeatsyeats
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    • Total Posts 2925

    Quote: from Wallace on 9:12 pm on April 12, 2007[br]Many years ago a regular punter in our family betting shop who only back unamed favourites had a big bet as usual in a race where the SP’s were 10/11 each of two!<br>

    I take it his stake was returned to him Wallace as they would be obliged to do. As you know the unwritten rule is "If you cannot win you cannot lose" and Ibas would confirm this.

    #51137
    Karly Flight
    Member
    • Total Posts 42

    <br>Burroughhill Posted on 7:17 am on April 13, 2007 <br>I’m glad he got a hefty ban. Never mind backing the horse, imagine how peed off the owners/trainer must have felt! A terrible error, and I hope he learns from it.  

    <br>I don’t expect Sheikh Mohammed will have lost too much sleep over losing out on a couple of grand in a Leicester Handicap!

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