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These records bug the hell out of me. It’s been a million years since a 5 year old won the CH, no 5 year old has ever won the QMCC.
did masterminded not win the QMCC aswell numnuts?
Thats what he was getting at I think
These records bug the hell out of me. It’s been a million years since a 5 year old won the CH, no 5 year old has ever won the QMCC.
did masterminded not win the QMCC aswell numnuts?
Thats what he was getting at I think
A stat should be used as a guide not a guarantee!
These records bug the hell out of me. It’s been a million years since a 5 year old won the CH, no 5 year old has ever won the QMCC.
did masterminded not win the QMCC aswell numnuts?
Thats what he was getting at I think
A stat should be used as a guide not a guarantee!
I was saying Fist was bringing up the point records are there to be broken, although Fame And Glory’s form you cant really knock I think.
No way in hell was the ground at York today riding on the firm side. The ground was good at best. I would suggest Leopardstown was more likely to be on the firmer side of good than York was today
Really?
————————————————————————-The Ground today was confirmed as Good (Good to Firm In Places)
Leopardstown was confirmed as Good but it was probably riding quicker than it was.
Look at the times of the races on the day, the open sprint went off an absolute storming pace and still came home near 1.5 seconds above standard. Not one race even came anywhere near dipping below standard.
Going descriptions published are frequently inaccurate. Other races were under standard on the same day as Fame And Glory suggesting the ground would have been towards the better side of good.
Times alone don’t mean alot, this is why you compile speed figure to quantify the variables
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You might be right Reet but I thought the Dante was approached by Ballydoyle in much the same way as the Chester Vase, or even the Derrinstown to some extent.
That is, one contender made a decent pace whilst another sat out the back to cover the options and for the stable to learn as much as possible.
Their was a lot of lazy thinking surrounding the running of Golden Sword at Chester, who is still being referred to as a pacemaker in some quarters, despite the fact he had his own pacemaker in the Prix Noailles.
My view, fwiw, is they may have had an idea of the ranking but rode the race to find out.Shabby
Totally agree about Golden Sword; just another example of JM not being on the real contender. Nice to find a kindred spirit.
Politics rules, OK!
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Really?
————————————————————————-OMG: not another expert?
Fwiw, there’s been a lot of rain in the area this evening, and with more forecast, I’d bet on there being soft in it somewhere for the last day.Really?
————————————————————————-OMG: not another expert?
Fwiw, there’s been a lot of rain in the area this evening, and with more forecast, I’d bet on there being soft in it somewhere for the last day.Kinane said it was perfect racing ground while Paul Hanagan thought the ground had NOT changed at all from the last day and was running the same, although John Gosden said it defintely had eased.
The clerk said it was still gd-fm in some places after racing had finished, the ground at Leopardstown didn’t have gd-fm anywhere in the description.
"what do you hate about fame and glory so much? to be honest fist i wouldnt be influenced by any of your dribble because reading over these pages all of your predictions have ran stinkers."
"did masterminded not win the QMCC aswell numnuts"
Rip, your number of posts suggest you are a relatively new member, on that basis I feel I should advise you that Fist came second in the ‘poster of the year’ poll we had not so long ago.
He has posted up very many winners and regaled us with an insider’s view of racing.
If you stay with us long enough you too will benefit from his knowledge.
Oh!…………one other thing, personal abuse is discouraged on here.
Colin
"what do you hate about fame and glory so much? to be honest fist i wouldnt be influenced by any of your dribble because reading over these pages all of your predictions have ran stinkers."
"did masterminded not win the QMCC aswell numnuts"
Rip, your number of posts suggest you are a relatively new member, on that basis I feel I should advise you that Fist came second in the ‘poster of the year’ poll we had not so long ago.
He has posted up very many winners and regaled us with an insider’s view of racing.
If you stay with us long enough you too will benefit from his knowledge.
Oh!…………one other thing, personal abuse is discouraged on here.
Colin
Colin are you Fists personal assistant/lover/stalker/groupie/very close friend? Fist is more than capable of looking after himself!
Would just like to pick up on a previous post which said that the time of the Dante was unimpressive. This is a common misconception IMO that the time has always got to be fast.
The slower the time the more speed that is being shown in trying to win the race. The thing to bear in mind with regards the time of the dante is that it was slower than would be expected on a possibly quick surface (still havent seen race yet), thus with the extra 2f, the likely better pace and the likely worse ground will mean that the derby should be considerably more testing than the dante.
Because the time of the dante wasnt impressive doesnt mean that the horses in it are poor, it merely means that the race itself is likely to be very different to epsom, and certain horses from the dante will be better suited to epsom conditions than those that have transpired in the dante.
Looking at the time and the going, I would expect that the further off the pace anything was the harder it would have been to get involved as the place to be would almost certainly have been the front. Thus despite the rule of no horse beaten in the dante having ever won the derby, this would be the sort of year IMO where that rule could be overturned (dantewise), however the other trials look to have thrown up some smart performers and the likes of Sans Frontieres etc not only have to reverse form with Black Bear Island but have to beat some very good looking horses also.
With regards Monitor Closely, IMO he has upheld no other form. The time and going would have rendered the race much more in the favour of a horse like monitor closely than the middle distance sorts who were effectively stepping down in trip from a trip that they have not yet encountered (if that makes sense), and so IMO the way the race has panned out would flatter monitor closely very much.
Fame And Glory remains very much the one to beat at epsom. However the value in the derby IMO rests with the Lingfield trial, where the first two home appear vastly under rated IMO at 25-1 and 50-1 respectively.
So far Ive got 16-1 and 10-1 on Fame and Glory, 16-1 on Gan Amhras, and 100-1 on Montaff, and the only horse that worries me is Age Of Aquarius (currently 25-1).
The quicker surface at lingfield (much like at york) would have severely compromised AOAs performance (much the same case with Montaff), yet both went well well and IMO both horses will be going like stink off the turn at epsom.
As everything stands I would expect Fame And Glory will be going the best off the turn, and Gan Amhras is a classy unknown quantity at the 1m4f trip which he is bred for. But epsom isnt always that simple and anything can happen so IMO there is still plenty of e/w value in the derby.
King, I was just trying to help Fist.
He isn’t one for self-agrandisement and I didn’t want to have to put himself in the position of boasting of his past record on here.
Terribly sorry if you think I have stuck my oar in where it wasn’t wanted.
Colin
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It would be nice to think Flame and Glory could become a champion of champions and remain unbeaten, win the Derby,the Arc and plundering the USA but he doesn’t give me the impression he is a wonderhorse.
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I really can’t see what else Fame and Glory can really do for you to change your opinion, I have to say your views on the horse have baffled me, the only way surely would to have put another length in and smash the Derrinstown record on Good ground.
Sea The Stars is deffo the danger to him, and Oxx can spoil the Coolmore party, but I’d see Fame And Glory smashing Gan Amhras all over the park at Epsom anyday, but I’d be on the view that Sea The Stars won The Guineas with a tremendous amount in hand.
Win the Derby would be a good start
You know prior to the Derby Jim Bolger’s was very open about Gan Amhras. He made no secret of the fact the horse would need a good bit further to be seen at his best. He also said he thought he was a very good horse and his class might just see him run into a place.The man could not have been nearer as the are turned out exactly as he thought.
Sea The Stars on the otherhand was tuned to the minute as there has always been a doubt on whether he will get the Derby trip or not.
I would say it’s fair to say Jim Bolger is a fair judge and he must fancy his chances of going very close to reversing placings with See the Stars at Epsom or at least finishing a lot closer.
See the Stars looked like he would have been able to finda bit more had something else came at him but he never won doing handstands.
So you are saying the doubtful stayer is a danger but the horse who is screaming for the trip has got no chance? That just doesn’t compute as far as I can make out.
Aren’t you the least bit curious how much Jim Bolger left on Gan Amhras to work with?
He has always said Gan Amhras is a Derby horse and I would doubt if he overdid it with himin his guineas prep.
It’s only my opinion but I would imagine Fame and Glory is going to be ridden similar to what he was in his trial. He’ll be looking to use his turn of foot from about 2 furlongs out. I wasn’t jumping of my seat with excitement when he won, for me while he has a fair bit of toe, he does not possess an explosive turn of foot like some greats of the past and he’s going to find it very hard at Epsom.
A horse like Gan Amhras coming off a strong gallop and perhaps hitting the front 3 out as he doesn’t have a instant turn of foot, might just be a very tough nut to crack if at becomes a fight. Sea the Stars himself if he gets the trip will be upfor it and if Fame and Glory can’t swoop past them and settle it quickly, like all these types of horses he’ll be the first to crack.
If you get to the bottom of a horse like him they very seldom find reserves.The Derrinstown was the first time I actually seen Fame and Glory quicken off in a flash, he just showed everyone he has another skill in his arsenal, if the ground comes soft he has the abilty to gallop his opposition into the ground, he is also a tough horse as well as a flashy one and he seems to have a set of gears and travels really well on the bridle.
Fame And Glory has yet to struggle once in his races and he has squared of against some classy opposition so it’s going to take some horse, Sea The Stars obviously has the class to give him a go and beat him on class alone.
Seems like Aidan has won all the trials except the Guineas. When did a Guineas winner last go on to win the Derby? When did any of the other trial winners go on to win the Derby? There must be a clue somewhere in there.Another thing,since Aidan was called in before the stewards over the use of pacemakers has he adopted a different policy towards using pacemakers in England versus Ireland? In both the Ballysax and the Derringstown his pace makers were following the old way and gave way to his Derby horse after completing their mission. In England his pacemakers were genuine challengers who were used to set the pace and keep on going.
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King, I was just trying to help Fist.
He isn’t one for self-agrandisement and I didn’t want to have to put himself in the position of boasting of his past record on here.
Terribly sorry if you think I have stuck my oar in where it wasn’t wanted.
Colin
Abslolutely no need for you to say sorry Colin and you are right. I certainly don’t want to go to the trouble of talking about the past to someone who is here today and gone tomorrow.
It’s in everyones interest to ensure these people are not allowed to continue posting abuse.
Just look what happened to GWilson77. A few words to the powers that be he was gone
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