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He, presumably was either the tosser or tossed; maybe bugger or buggered
Am I alone in finding these revelations about the shadow-life of the likes of Smith, Saville and who knows who somewhat underwhelming
High Office like High Notoriety attracts those who revel in – or need – the public’s glow; and must therefore attract a percentage above the median of those who do not find all the solace they need ‘capering nimbly in a lady’s bedchamber to the the lascivious playing of a lute’
Those days were the golden days of youth- but dark,dark…pukingly-suited and cold-eyed dark days too
how can you quote from that vile posthumous slander of Richard III?
VG Wit
Are you a member of The Richard III Society? I’m not, those poor boys …
But I, that am not shaped for sportive tricks
Nor made to court an amorous looking-glass,
I, that am rudely stamped and want love’s majesty
To strut before a wanton ambling nymph,
I, that am curtailed of this fair proportion,
Cheated of feature by dissembling nature,
Deformed, unfinished, sent before my time
Into this breathing world scarce half made upHows about that then Jimmy, nice one Cyril
It’s just getting absolutely ridiculous how the feeding frenzy is continuing against Sir Jimmy Savile.
Now others like Sir Cyril Smith, Dave Lee Travis and Freddie Starr are getting dragged into it.
What really annoys me is that nobody on TV or the newspapers is now even bothering to say "allegations of sexual abuse". It is being presented as fact, as though there were no doubt about it and it was beyond any room for the slightest doubt.
What good will it do spending hundreds of thousands of pounds launching in-depth investigations into someone who is dead? He can’t be prosecuted. It’s just an absolute waste of time and money.
No doubt we will be told that it will bring "closure" for the alleged victims but what good will a witch hunt against those in authority at the BBC, Broadmoor and Stoke Mandeville 30 or 40 years ago do, apart from satisfying the lynch mob mentality?
If a top-rank report is produced into the scandal, it will still not alter one jot that he is dead and below the law or "justice". He cannot be punished.
If he had gone on trial in his lifetime, there’s every chance he would have been cleared in a blaze of glory and, if it had been in the last few years, it’s highly likely the case would have collapsed because there would be no proof and juries are highly unwilling to convict people in these sorts of cases in what will be extremely flimsy evidence from 30 years ago.
The police are having a field day grandstanding and playing to the gallery by very publicly arresting DLT and Freddie Starr.
It’s a sad fact that many of the people who have "bravely" come forward are hoping to make a packet in compensation from his millions. Many have just jumped on the band wagon.
They are just allegations but, just because he is dead, everyone seems to have convicted him. Even the police have described him as one of the country’s most notorious sex offenders as though it was beyond any question.
I know that you can’t libel the dead but just to decide unilaterally that he is automatically guilty and to use the language used of a CONVICTED sex offender doesn’t seem right.
I stress that I am not defending what he may have done but for a man’s whole reputation to be summarily trashed without even using the word "allegations" at all now seems over the top.
You,obviously haven’t been sexually abused CrustyPatch have you?
What about the poor victims?
Don’t they need some form of closure after all these years of being ignored? Many are still suffering from mental health issues still after the abuse took place all those years ago.
I find your comments absolutely insensitive and indefensible.
You really do have a strange attitude at times.
Matron or Cormack
Since the is no proof, I think it would be wise to delete this topic because I think it’s libel. The article that I sent says that the issue was closed when he was still alive.
You can defame the dead with impunity, but you can’t slander or libel them
I admit, both Savile and Smith are dead easy targets…but they got away with heinous, hideous crimes under the carefully nurtured cover of public adulation…didn’t they?
Once upon a time this Lounge trod where others feared to tread, and no man has trodden:?
I like the Past and the Perfect but only when it’s prescient to the Present
You can defame the dead with impunity, but you can’t slander or libel them
I admit, both Savile and Smith are dead easy targets…but they got away with heinous, hideous crimes under the carefully nurtured cover of public adulation…didn’t they?
Once upon a time this Lounge trod where others feared to tread, and no man has trodden:?
I like the Past and the Perfect but only when it’s relevant to the Present
What gets me is like CrustyPatch says no one is saying "allegation". The whole thing smells like a witch hunt to me.
Drone do you have proof about Cyril or are you going by what you’ve heard in the media.What really annoys me is that nobody on TV or the newspapers is now even bothering to say "allegations of sexual abuse". It is being presented as fact, as though there were no doubt about it and it was beyond any room for the slightest doubt.
When he correctly points this out is verbally attacked by Matron.
You,obviously haven’t been sexually abused CrustyPatch have you?
What about the poor victims?
Don’t they need some form of closure after all these years of being ignored? Many are still suffering from mental health issues still after the abuse took place all those years ago.
I find your comments absolutely insensitive and indefensible.
You really do have a strange attitude at times.
Might I add that I’m from Rochdale and by deleting the post I meant the entire topic. I find it offensive, but what would Cyril Smith’s brother make of it.
Hardly a witch hunt now: the stinking witch should have been burnt 40 years ago…it would seem. It was all there for many to see…it would seem, but no one spoke-up for the poor boys and girls because Smith and Savile were, for want of a less ghastly word, celebrities
I’m from York and Yorkshire but I’m not an apologist for Dick Turpin or Peter Sutcliffe
The inglorious dead can’t hang their heads in shame, but those who knew and remain can…or should…or shiver
Hardly a witch hunt now: the stinking witch should have been burnt 40 years ago…it would seem. It was all there for many to see…it would seem, but no one spoke-up for the poor boys and girls because Smith and Savile were, for want of a less ghastly word, celebrities
I’m from York and Yorkshire but I’m not an apologist for Dick Turpin or Peter Sutcliffe
The inglorious dead can’t hang their heads in shame, but those who knew and remain can…or should…or shiver
The 2 you mentioned was proven guilty in a court of law. For Cyril Smith, the allegations was closed during his lifetime and the are no proof of these allegations.
Until it is proofed in a court of law, I’d word such things better.
I’ve met Cyril and for me these allegations are false, and if I should meet his brother (which he has visited where I work), I might inform him of these false allegations made by this forum and some of it’s members.
I’m sorry about how this comes across, but like I said this feel like a witch hunt were gospel is all that’s needed to convict a person.
if Lord McAlpine had been dead like Savile and Smith, would it have been "absolutely insensitive and indefensible" for his family and friends to be asking his accuser for proof?
the McAlpine situation is one example why emotion generated by a victim’s allegations should not override normal testing of those allegations.
the issue is about holding to account persons properly accountable, not just any persons.
For Cyril Smith, the allegations was closed during his lifetime and the are no proof of these allegations.
Until it is proofed in a court of law, I’d word such things better.
I’ve met Cyril and for me these allegations are false, and if I should meet his brother (which he has visited where I work), I might inform him of these false allegations made by this forum and some of it’s members.
Drone do you have proof about Cyril or are you going by what you’ve heard in the media..
RedRum77,
I get the impression you and I were both had the Spirit of Christmas Present for company last night, and what a thoroughly wholesome ghost he is too
Anyway, reflections in the cold light of a new day wouldn’t go amiss.
Of course I have no proof that Cyril Smith was guilty of the crimes attributed to him, hence the deliberate ambiguity of my posts : quotation marks on the thread title, ‘presumably’, ‘didn’t they?’, ‘it would seem’ . So I feel no need to word anything better
You’re keen to point out that you met Cyril Smith and that for you "these allegations are false". This is quite revealing and whilst not intended as a slight on you in any way, rather emphasises the point I’ve been trying to make in my all too typical roundabout, florid and alliterative way: that he was a man, like Savile, who could charm those he met in public to the point of adulation whilst hiding a dark, dark side; and furthermore deliberately cultivated his position as a ‘national treasure’ in order to make it all but unthinkable he could be guilty of despicable crimes, though that admittedly would seem more true of Savile than Smith
Allegedly and in my opinion, okay?
However Wit, as per usual, has raised a very good and telling point in his last post; one which I feel unable to counter or disagree with, so that’s all from me, warts and all
"CrustyPatch wrote:What really annoys me is that nobody on TV or the newspapers is now even bothering to say "allegations of sexual abuse". It is being presented as fact, as though there were no doubt about it and it was beyond any room for the slightest doubt.
When he correctly points this out is verbally attacked by Matron."
I am not accusing any individual – living or dead.
I should go back and read his post in full again as I found it flippant.
Same, as Drone last words on the topic from me.
Do not know if there really is proof against Cyril Smith. It would seem that there is plenty of proof against Savile. Although we do have to ask how many are "band-wagon" jumpers, it seems to me there is too much evidence against the sainted Sir Jim, and far too much covered up for by people who should have spoken out to protect the abused children and young adults in their care. Shame on all those who kept quiet at the time!
Talking recently with friends (before the JS revelations) we all agreed that all these perverts and child abusers were just not around in our childhoods (approx 60s), but they obviously were, weren’t they? Scary thought. We were lucky.
Were my old friends and I just lucky? Seems like our failure to get to meet our idols of the time was the best thing that could have happened to us.
The recent revelations and accusations are absolutely disgusting, and whatever happens to those who are still alive to answer for them, it cannot be severe enough. They deserve to rot in jail, suspended by their testicles til they rot! Sadly, though JS is rotting, he is not suffering as his young victims did! I always thought there was something creepy about him.
It’s all pure grandstanding by the police but in line with a growing victim culture in this country and a linked desire for retribution.
How the police must be loving knocking on the doors of all these famous people at unearthly hours of the morning.
It’s just got absolutely out of hand. Now they’ve even been quizzing "Uncle Ted", the famous Ted Beston, who was a featured character on Sir Jimmy Savile’s Radio One programmes when he worked as Savile’s producer in the 1980s.
The police must really have loved feeling the collar of publicist Max Clifford. And imagine their glee at going home and telling the missus that they had arrested It’s a Knockout star Stuart Hall or Freddie Starr at their luxury homes.
It’s all becoming very distasteful and a complete over-reaction and media feeding frenzy.
I repeat: they are allegations, not proven facts.
We now hear that 30 officers have been working on the latest twists in the "Plebgate" scandal. Nothing to do with the Savile and Co matters but an example of a gross and outrageously over-the-top waste of supposedly hard-pressed police resources.
We keep being told that the police are being cut to the bone but there’s no problem in finding the officers to work on politically-motivated investigations such as this.
Do not know if there really is proof against Cyril Smith. It would seem that there is plenty of proof against Savile. Although we do have to ask how many are "band-wagon" jumpers, it seems to me there is too much evidence against the sainted Sir Jim, and far too much covered up for by people who should have spoken out to protect the abused children and young adults in their care. Shame on all those who kept quiet at the time!
Talking recently with friends (before the JS revelations) we all agreed that all these perverts and child abusers were just not around in our childhoods (approx 60s), but they obviously were, weren’t they? Scary thought. We were lucky.
Were my old friends and I just lucky? Seems like our failure to get to meet our idols of the time was the best thing that could have happened to us.
The recent revelations and accusations are absolutely disgusting, and whatever happens to those who are still alive to answer for them, it cannot be severe enough. They deserve to rot in jail, suspended by their testicles til they rot! Sadly, though JS is rotting, he is not suffering as his young victims did! I always thought there was something creepy about him.
Cyril did admit to spanking boys, but to me this suggests corporal punishment. Nothing more, nothing less which during the fifties and sixties was accepted. It was a different attitude then.
Are you a member of The Richard III Society? I’m not, those poor boys 
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