Craven Stakes memories

[IanDavies]

I first remember the year when Tromos got sensationally turned over by Lyphards Wish.

To-Agori-Mou getting beat by Kind Of Hush and bouncing back to win the 2,000 Guineas in 1981 is another.

I backed Silver Hawk when he won in 1982 and was at Newmarket when he was fifth to Zino in the Guineas. He was third to Golden Fleece in The Derby too.

Lear Fan beat Rainbow Quest in 1984 but neither were a match for El Gran Senor in the Classic.

And Shadeed bolted in by six in 1985, but made heavier weather of winning the Guineas.

The only Craven I ever attended was in 1986 when Dancing Brave beat Mashkour in, by Newmarket standards, a quagmire.

The intervening 36 years?

Anyone want to pick up the baton and run with it?

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[Gladiateur]

Wasn’t the first ever Racing Post published on Craven day in 1987, with Ajdal on the front page?

Or does my memory fail me?

Edit: just Googled it and the Post was launched in 1986. The Ajdal one must have been the first anniversary of the paper.

[Nathan Hughes]

Toronado won his Craven well and is a personally favourite of mine.
His two year old form was okay but nothing spectacular. He had improved through the winter though and his performance in this race gave him a genuine chance in the guineas. Hannon praised the winner, saying; “He’s a machine. We’ve always known he’s a good horse and good horses can quicken and quicken again which is what he did today.

I had gone against the grain when picking Toronado for the 2000 Guineas as a two year old.
Better judges than myself on here TAPK and queen of Newmarket Triptych were all over Dawn Approach and rightly so as he won the Guineas by a mile with Toronado well beaten 4th. Toronado was far too bad that day in comparison to his Craven run. The only explanation offered by the Hannon stable was that the colt might have suffered a displaced palate during the race
I kept the faith with Toronado at Royal Ascot for the St James Palace stakes. A TRF member was all over O’Brien’s Magician and didn’t give Toronado a chance saying his in the guineas was him. The real Toronado turned up this time but lost again to Dawn Approach in a photo finish after the two eyeballed each other and pulled clear of the rest. Toronado had been involved and for me got the worse end of a bump when making his move and I was again confident he’d exact revenge in the Sussex.
I met TAPK at Nottingham races and again he was all over Dawn Approach I told him Richard Hughes would come late and wide of Dawn Approach as not to get into a duel with the Bolger warrior.
Hughes did exactly that with Toronado and he won showing his Craven run was not a one off.

Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026

[IanDavies]

I was there and watched that Guineas too close for comfort to a big loud Irish guy, who was a poor ambassador for his generally charming nation (I need to stress this having already been accused of xenophobia once this morning).

He was one of those who has to make everything into Ireland v England and started shouting, trying to make eye contact with all around him: “where’s Toronado? I can’t see Toronado!” as Dawn Approach swept clear.

None of us was interested – most of us had backed Dawn Approach too.

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[Triptych]

I remember our shoot out at Dawn (Approach) as if it were yesterday Nathan and Toronado certainly was a worthy winner with DA getting his revenge in the 2000 Guineas and then defeat in the St. James’s Palace by DA only to end the season winning the Sussex in great style. It was one of those years when you might have wished Toronado had been born a year earlier or later so that they didn’t have to clash but at the time of domination by Coolmore these two led the way and gave us a season to live in our memories forever.

I had been as obsessed with Dawn Approach then as I am now with Native Trail and not surprised that Charlie Appleby has him entered up for the Craven on Wednesday but a little surprised that Coreobus will also be taking his chances alongside him. They are two horses built so completely different with Coreobus looking the image of his sire Dubawi and Native Trail big, rangy and unfinished business..it’s going to be so interesting to see how they both look if they turn out together on Wednesday.

There is almost a curse on horses who win the Craven that they do not go on and win the Guineas, same with the Nell Gwyn and the 1000 Guineas.

The last horse to win the Craven and 2000 Guineas was Haafd in 2004 but this year if Native Trail wins the 2022 Craven I can see him updating those stats and taking the 2000 Guineas also as long as he has come out of his winter holidays well which we will only see on Wednesday. Really looking forward to this and also seeing if Charlie Appleby is going to run Coreobus against him. I would think there are top Group races in Ireland for both to have top chances of success in their own right. Native Trail already has William Buick down as his jockey but so far none for Coreobus and would presume it will be James Doyle.

Back to Ian’s Craven memory bank and the one that sticks in my mind for all the wrong reasons was in 2016 when the weather was at it’s worst with black thunder clouds rolling over the top of the Rowley Mile stands. The horses were just coming into the paddock when the heavens opened and everyone ran for cover, the wind got up and then just as we reached cover there was a big flash of lightning and huge bang, a woman let out a blood curdling scream (not me) and the whole of the racecourse was plunged into darkness, a thunderbolt had made a direct hit. The Tote went down, all the screens were black, no bets could be placed and there was no commentary. All we knew was that the horses were on their way to the start, were being loaded into the stalls and then released into what could only be described as ‘Armageddon’.
So we waited and waited with a view from our cover just overlooking where the horses would come back from the course and into the winning bays and suddenly a soggy bedraggled horse and rider appeared, you couldn’t even read the number on the horse it had been turned inside out. Finally we found out that the appropriately named Stormy Antarctic, trained by Ed Walker, had prevailed a name that I would never forget and his jockey was George Baker who a year later sadly had to take early retirement due to an horrific accident that almost cost him his life during a race held on ice.

So many more good memories notably the big white face of Kool Kompany the year before in 2016 I was all over him and had a big bet on, same with Eminent in 2017 who beat the great Benbatl (3rd) by 2 lengths.

The following year 2018 it was all about Masar the beautiful big chestnut who won the Craven Stakes but, true to the curse, went down in the 2000 Guneas to Saxon Warrior only to win the Derby a month later.

Great Thread Ian Jac

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[IanDavies]

Thank you and great stuff – btw I suspect Coreobus may go to the Greenham on the Saturday.

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[The Tatling Cheekily]

Great thread. Couple of minor thoughts:

Would it be a bit surprising if Coreobus went 7f Greenham and Native Trail went 1m Craven? Appleby was fairly adamant recently that out of the two Coreobus was almost certain to benefit from middle distances.

It was nice to see Masar win the Derby, as in my mind the Greenham has been producing much better winners than the Craven, in the last couple of decades at least.

BUY THE SUN

[Triptych]

Interesting Ian and Tats regarding Coreobus thank you .
Made me go off searching the Net for further info and I just found a Sky Sports interview with Matt Chapman where CA said that the Greenham was a possible for Coreobus. He also said that if the 2000 Guineas were run tomorrow then Native Trail is the one who had come out of the Winter as good as, hopefully better than, he left it last year. Jac

Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...

[Ben_Bernanke]

“Would it be a bit surprising if Coreobus went 7f Greenham and Native Trail went 1m Craven? Appleby was fairly adamant recently that out of the two Coreobus was almost certain to benefit from middle distances.”

Cheers for this Tat, didn’t know Appleby had said this about Coroebus going up in trip, think I’ll have to back it for the derby now.

[The Tatling Cheekily]

“Cheers for this Tat, didn’t know Appleby had said this about Coroebus going up in trip, think I’ll have to back it for the derby now.”

Tread carefully Ben – specifically mentions 10f. Below is the interview.

BUY THE SUN

[IanDavies]

It’s a game of opinions and mine is that neither Native Trail nor Coroebus are Derby colts.

Even though he is the sire of Midday, I can’t have a son of Oasis Dream winning a Derby, there isn’t that much stamina in Coroebus’s pedigree either and the fact he’s being aimed at the Greenham over 7f to help him settle is hardly a good sign for middle distances.

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[Ben_Bernanke]

Thanks again Tat, looks like I’ll leave him for the Derby then haha.

[IanDavies]

The 1987 winner Ajdal was the colt who ran in The Derby en route to the, err, Nunthorpe.

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[Triptych]

Very informative video Tatters thank you.

Just watched both horses running in all their past races and the difference in their action is amazing.
Coreobus won’t want anything softer than good as he has a very low action but oh what a fantastic action Native Trail has I can honestly say he is actually flying when he runs his front legs come up so high as if he is going to jump a fence (watch him in slow motion) literally poetry in motion.

I wish I had £500 to take the 2/5 currently on offer but my max bet is nowhere near that. He’s going to be outstanding this year.

Regarding Oasis Dream Ian I do think you are right about Native Trails chances of winning the Derby but we shall have to wait and see, so far he has only won over 7f but his dam Needleleaf has Quest For Fame in her pedigree..what a prospect he is Jac

Things turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...

[IanDavies]

Thanks for that – I find with pedigrees generally there is usually something somewhere in most bloodlines that offers hope for just about anything, but the balance of probabilities suggests to me Native Trail is a miler in the making, with 1m2f possibly worth a try at some stage.

Looking at him physically, it would be most disappointing if he didn’t train on from two to three.

He doesn’t look a precocious 2yo type to me, making his accomplishments so far even more remarkable.

Looking forward to Wednesday.

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[IanDavies]

And so the race is upon us, today’s the day.

I would rate Dancing Brave the best ever Craven winner and Tromos the most calamitous flop.

Will Native Trail be a Dancing Brave, a Tromos, or something in between?

The latter has to be the odds-on favourite.

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[yeats]

Don’t know about odds on Ian, think you’d struggle to get a price.

Interestingly the Craven was won by Tromos’s half brother, the year after he got turned over. Both out of Stilvi of course.

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