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Constitution Hill

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  • #1624147
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    “Hello, Newbury? Nicky here. Could I possibly book in Constitution Hill for a racecourse gallop in the middle of February? I cannot find a suitable race for him, you see. And put about two inches of water on the track, just to be on the safe side. Thank you so much.”

    #1624149
    Avatar photoMiss Woodford
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    • Total Posts 1656

    Climate change being what it is – many temperate regions experiencing extended periods of drought punctuated by floods – the rest of the world is likely going in the other direction as far as watering is concerned. Golf courses and racetracks are going to be the first to feel the pinch of water restrictions. Outside of Europe horses are accustomed to running on firm and good ground, so if the UK stops breeding for that (which to reiterate I don’t think is actually an issue seeing as those supposedly delicate horses regularly have success on firm turf abroad) they’ll be alone in that respect.

    On the other hand, once enough sea ice melts the jet stream will disappear and England will have the same climate as Alaska, so summer jumps racing will be back on.

    #1624195
    ham
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    • Total Posts 3467

    I hope that whole post was satire, miss woodford lol cant remember reading such nonsense since the first page of this thread claiming CH as the frankel of the jumps

    On the other hand, keeping all the nonsense on one threads most certainly beneficial

    #1624200
    Avatar photoBen_Bernanke
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    • Total Posts 2367

    Sorry ham my memory escapes me but have you always been this angry at the world?

    #1624203
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    • Total Posts 12999

    Whether I or others agree with it or not, it was yet another very interesting post IMO, Miss Woodford, one of so very many from you.

    Your alternative take on things from a non-UK angle is surely always of interest to anyone who likes to keep an open, global, mind.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624205
    Avatar photoBen_Bernanke
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    I agree with Ian, I always love reading Miss Woodfords post, it also makes me surprisingly happy knowing there’s an American woman out there thousands of miles away who enjoys Cheltenham as much as we do.

    #1624238
    Avatar photoGladiateur
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    Ham? More like gammon.

    There is more common sense in any one of Miss Woodford’s contributions to this forum than in ham’s entire posting history.

    Getting this thread (hopefully) back on track, let’s hope that Constitution Hill makes the trip to Newcastle with Epatante. It would give us some indication of how he compares with Honeysuckle.

    #1624240
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    • Total Posts 12999

    Completely agree with Ben and Gladders.

    It would be the optimum outcome for racing if Constitution Hill ran at Newcastle.

    It would do much instantly to erase the memory of Ascot.

    What would be really nice would be if the racing media could celebrate the Fighting Fifth as a prestigious Grade 1 in its own right, rather than yet another “Trial” (yawn) on the (increasingly-excruciating) “Road To Cheltenham.”

    If the racing media want trainers to focus on the importance of the entire NH season, perhaps they should start doing that themselves.

    It’s all very well people like Ed Chamberlin saying “it’s hard to promote the sport” and Lydia Hislop and Kevin Blake getting pats on the back from all their media colleagues for so-called “strong words” when all they seem to do is rabbit on about the Cheltenham Festival all winter long the rest of the time.

    The racing media has played a big part in this myopic Festival obsession which culminates in things like the Ascot farce on Saturday.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624243
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    The betting suggests the bookmakers do not believe he is going to run at Newcastle.

    #1624254
    Avatar photoCork All Star
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    I will believe it when it happens.

    Wish I had taken the 6/4 now…

    https://www.racingtv.com/news/constitution-hill-will-run-in-the-fighting-fifth-says-henderson

    #1624257
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    No bigger fan of Constitution Hill than me, but I will believe he’s running in the Fighting Fifth at Newcastle on Saturday when I see him lining up at the start.

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"

    #1624260
    TakeYourTime
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    I understand the cynicism to a point but surely Hendo wouldn’t declare him a runner this far out only to pull him again unless he is a genuine masochist.

    This is about the only card Newcastle has that can attract such quality horses and I really hope to be able to see him in the flesh in the ring on Saturday, along with L’Homme Presse.

    #1624266
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    • Total Posts 12999

    I’m not so sure.

    Henderson is at an age where he probably couldn’t begin to care what the racing media and racing public think.

    He probably doesn’t even care if his words make other trainers look foolhardy for running on the ground he eschewed at Ascot, or the racecourse or even racing itself.

    If Newcastle isn’t 100% to his liking I could see Henderson sticking two fingers up to everyone by withdrawing him again.

    However, Gosforth Park has never taken the rain particularly well and on balance I reckon there will be sufficient give to persuade Henderson to run.

    Seeing will still be believing, though!

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624267
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    It’s not a competition but, amid all the eulogising and racing media backslapping of Lydia Hislop and Kevin Blake, the article which, for me, was, by a country mile, the best written, the least excruciatingly self-indulgent and sermonising, and got right to the heart of the matter, came from Greg Wood of The Guardian: https://amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/nov/21/talking-horses-ascot-racing-is-now-fully-exposed-to-climate-change-crisis-horse-racing-tips

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624282
    Stodge168
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    • Total Posts 32

    For me, the central question is whether Nicky Henderson should be dictating the going at any track.

    I read on the Racing Post the ground at Newcastle is currently Good to Soft, Soft in places yet they are watering.

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/newcastle-aiming-for-good-to-soft-ground-for-constitution-hills-comeback/589606

    Would they be bothering if Constitution Hill wasn’t a possible runner? I don’t know but do we want to go down the Auteuil route of constant watering to produce guaranteed soft to heavy ground? We could do that – we might not need to at Lingfield for example but even tomorrow it’s Good to Soft on the chase course having been virtually waterlogged barely a week ago.

    There is a wider point – perhaps the water tables are so low the ground is drying exceptionally quickly despite the rain we’ve been having and you have to water to hold even Good to Soft in the north east and without it the ground would be Good.

    The second problem is where you have separate Flat and Jumps tracks and the ground on the latter is left throughout the summer to become hard and unraceable. At Chepstow, for example, they switched hurdle races to the flat track – I suspect Sandown’s hurdle track will be fine so is there an argument for giving courses more latitude to switch to alternative tracks if required?

    #1624284
    Avatar photoIanDavies
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    Water tables are clearly variable around the country – both Haydock Park and Ascot rode quicker than might have been expected given the recent rainfall they’d had, but there are also plenty of places where the rain seems to be getting into the ground.

    Auteuil fascinates me – I’ve never seen it described as quicker than Soft, and often Very Soft or Heavy.

    Do they deposit half the contents of the River Seine on it daily?

    It’s a beautifully-landscaped circuit, but the actual racing surface is a quagmire under that lush “vert” sward!

    I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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    #1624291
    apracing
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    • Total Posts 3755

    Last Saturday there was a meeting at Auteuil at much the same time as the meeting at Ascot. The Auteuil card included a 4yo handicap hurdle over 3900 metres, the Ascot card the big hurdle won by Goshen over 2M 3.5F.

    In fact the official distance for Ascot is 2M 3F 58Yds and 3900 metres converts to approx 2M 3F 90Yds. But since I wouldn’t rely on the official distances at either track, can we just agree they’re as close to identical as makes no difference.

    As we all know by now, the official going at Ascot was good. At Auteuil it was Lourd, or Heavy, with a going stick figure of 4.6. In the French system, the higher the number the softer the going and 5 is the highest I’ve ever seen, while 3.2 would be Bon.

    Goshen won his race in 4M 40.4s – the French 4yo handicapper running on ‘heavy’ won his in 4M 41.7s.

    Good Lourd, why would anybody believe a French going description.

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