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“I used to love Cheltenham, but it has become a bloated monster”
Correct, and same here.
“So you are guessing that is the case based on the recent trend of certain trainers being a set of scared nancy boys?”
It’s possible somewhere between 0.1% and 99.9%
Only one horse can win any one race unless unless its a dead heat, so plenty more horses will lose and many of them will lose with only a few runs a season. Trainers targeting Cheltenham run less throughout the season to get the horse to peak on the day. Bloody obvious really
I’m not saying I agree with it
would love to see the best horses running more against each other but I can see why they don’t when the whole of the jumps racing calendar revolves around one meeting“Bloody obvious really”
Is it indeed. If only everyone subscribed to your confidently spewed logic we could sack jumps racing off apart from March and April.
“‘The days of these horses running five or six times before Cheltenham are gone.’
Why?”
I am not saying I think it is a good thing, TTC. But it is a fact.
Look at the Championship races at Cheltenham this season and the number of races the winners had before Cheltenham:
Honeysuckle 2
Energumene 2
Allaho 2
Flooring Porter 2, that I can remember
A Plus Tard 2Even novices like Constitution Hill and Sir Gerhard only had two runs. So did Galopin Des Champs and Bob Olinger.
Edwardstone and L’Homme Presse had a few more races.
I do not like the way Cheltenham overshadows the whole season now – but it does and that is not going to change any time soon. Modern training methods clearly allow trainers to get horses fit on the back of just two races. The likes of Mullins or Henderson are not going to run a horse six times and risk (in their mind) tiring the horse out before Cheltenham and (especially in Mullins’s case) Punchestown.
“I’m not saying I agree with it
would love to see the best horses running more against each other but I can see why they don’t when the whole of the jumps racing calendar revolves around one meeting”It shouldn’t though. For example, the King George has a much better roll of honour than the Gold Cup. The best 2m chases of this millenium have been away from ‘The Fez’. Well Chief in the old VC handicap, Moscow Flyer beating Azertyuiop and Well Chief in the Tingle Creek. Shishkin beating Energumene in thrilling match. Only the piss heads and the media pricks think Cheltenham should dominate the season.
The Champion Hurdle horses are all being sold to Australia or the Middle East, so thats a different kettle of fish altogether.
11 Festival winners this year ran more than twice beforehand (5 actually ran 5 times and one ran 6 times).
The perceived wisdom that some trainers have are that horses can’t run more than twice before the Festival seems highly flawed to me and I think it is more a combination of them being scared to run them too often incase they get injured and miss the Festival altogether and trying to avoid a big clash against opponents before Cheltenham.
“11 Festival winners this year ran more than twice beforehand (5 actually ran 5 times and one ran 6 times).”
How many of those were in the Graded races and how many were in the handicaps?
“11 Festival winners this year ran more than twice beforehand (5 actually ran 5 times and one ran 6 times).”
Absolutely brilliat stay LD.
I actually missed one additional horse in Elimay making it 12 winners instead of 11. Breakdown is as follows:
Edwardstone (G1) 5 runs before
Marie’s Rock (G1) 5 runs before
Brazil (G3)* 4 runs before
L’Homme Presse (G1) 4 runs before
Commander Of Fleet (G3)* 6 runs before
Global Citizen (G3)* 5 runs before
Third Wind (G3)* 3 runs before
Coole Cody (G3)* 5 runs before
Love Envoi (G2) 4 runs before
Chambard (Handicap) 5 runs before
The Nice Guy(G1) 3 runs before
Elimay (G2) 3 runs before* Handicaps but also listed as a graded race
So no Championship race winners
of those races above how many in opposition ran less races than the winners
and of those handicaps/races previous to Cheltenham were training in public exercisesThanks LD73.
I think we can overlook the Mares Hurdle. I doubt Henderson thought Marie’s Rock was going to win that at the start of the season.
I also doubt Venetia Williams thought L’Homme Presse was going to win a Grade 1. I remember seeing him win a handicap at Exeter!
Edwardstone is an interesting one. Maybe some trainers feel novices need a few more races to get experienced?
Five of the races are handicaps, so I think it is understandable that those horses ran more often.
Even the likes of Elimay and The Nice Guy only ran three times.
I think the point is: if a trainer has a horse he/she thinks has a great chance of winning a Grade 1 at Cheltenham, are they really going to run it five or six times? I just do not see it happening, especially with the Irish trainers who have got Punchestown in mind.
I would like nothing more than to see the whole National Hunt season reinvigorated but Cheltenham now dominates. The big owners who are spending six figure sums on point to pointers and paying expensive training fees are not doing that to win a nice race at Newbury or Naas. They want Cheltenham winners and trainers are under pressure to provide them.
“Edwardstone is an interesting one. Maybe some trainers feel novices need a few more races to get experienced?”
I think the 2m novice chasers need plenty of chance to get used to jumping at speed. Footpad, Douvan, Un de Sceaux and Shishkin ran 3 times before Cheltenham, Altior 4. They all ran again at Aintree, Punchestown or Sandown; Douvan at two of those.
3 mile chasing is harder. Bravemansgame had 4 starts- two of them just easy hacks round a shorter trip, missed the big day and then flopped at Aintree. Monkfish ran 3 times before Cheltenham, won but didn’t look at his best on the day then got thoroughly beaten at Punchestown then got injured. Champ’s back and wind fell to pieces after his RSA win. Topofthegame broke before the next season. The fragile Presenting Percy fell apart.
Henderson is simply doing the right thing by my ante-post be…., sorry, I mean the horse!
I am not against trainers per say running as less as they think will suit their respective horse but equally there is not a lot of evidence to say that running three or four times before Cheltenham is as detrimental to a horses chances as some trainers would have us all believe.
Yes I realise that for the Champion Hurdle/QMCC/Gold Cup contenders there are only so many level weight conditions races that you can target on your way to Cheltenham and those opportunities decrease rapidly if you are less willing to go to Ireland or face a pre Cheltenham clash with a likely opponent but I think only seeing a horse 3 or less times a year is rather sad for the sport (especially if only 1 of the races is a proper contest).
That was what made the Energumene/Shishkin Ascot race such a breath of fresh air and gave such a boost to racing as it more than lived up to the pre race hype. Sadly those type of happenings are likely to be as rare as a blue moon so I guess well will have to savour them when they do come along….fingers crossed we get the clash next March with both on their A game.
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