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I backed Coneygree yesterday so I wasn’t surprised at the outcome. The second isn’t as reliable as his form figures suggest and he probably needs the soft ground to negate his pretty ordinary jumping.
Coneygree has never raced on anything faster than good to soft and I suspect ground conditions will leave him vulnerable whatever race he contests.
I don’t see King’s Palace doing any better than last year. Once headed I can see the tank emptying all too quickly. The Festival is a far cry from beating up one or two serious opponents.
If last years Gold Cup is anything to go by, then I think Coneygree has an excellent chance of taking it
This horse isn’t short on sheer grit and his relentless running style might well grind out the sting of many good horses around today. I feel as though the extra 2 furlongs in the GC won’t hinder his stamina and he isn’t a stranger to Cheltenham. I get the impression that good ground may even play to his strengths. He ticks a lot of boxes IMO.
Night Nurse, Gaffer, Beef or Salmon, Carvill’s Hill, Martin Pipes who’s name escapes me; all star novices who failed in the Gold Cup, in some cases with lasting effects. Only Captain Christy and Dawn Run have managed it, and they were virtual freaks
Coneygree isn’t a one-trick pony who needs to lead. He was quite happily settled in second in the Feltham before Killala Quay unseated. If Kings Palace or anything else wanted the lead desperately enough to take it from him in the RSA, I’m sure Nico de Boinville would happily accept the offer.
He just goes his natural pace and does his work in much more straightforward way than his brother Carruthers.
IMO Coneygree will have a better chance of getting his own way up front in the Gold Cup than the RSA imo. I’m on Kings Palace for the latter and hope the two don’t meet. Not only is Coneygree a rival on ability, way they race (out and out front runners) might scupper each other’s chances too.
AKA ‘The Dream’ for Don Poli backers
I don’t see King’s Palace doing any better than last year. Once headed I can see the tank emptying all too quickly. The Festival is a far cry from beating up one or two serious opponents.
Get the stop watch out Stilvi, take the fractions of the Albert Bartlett. Tom Scu got went a suicidal pace, even Arkle would’ve been emptying. Ignore that run (other than the probability KP "has to lead").
Value Is EverythingConeygree isn’t a one-trick pony who needs to lead. He was quite happily settled in second in the Feltham before Killala Quay unseated. If Kings Palace or anything else wanted the lead desperately enough to take it from him in the RSA, I’m sure Nico de Boinville would happily accept the offer.
He just goes his natural pace and does his work in much more straightforward way than his brother Carruthers.
I don’t know what race you were watching TYF.
In the Feltham/Kauto Star – Coneygree led for the first part of the race, then when Carraig Mor came up to take over Nico didn’t want to be "behind" Fehily. Take a look at how the pace increased (got strung out very quickly) from that point. That for me is quite evident Nico didn’t want anything "in front". Coneygree only really jumped one fence just half a length behind – and then only due to trying to find a stride. Two fences he took upsides Carraig Mor and the rest clear of the field.Often, horses are ok if they’re racing upsides, but not when consistently more than a length down. Neither Kings Palace or Coneygree like to be headed imo.
Value Is EverythingI don’t see King’s Palace doing any better than last year. Once headed I can see the tank emptying all too quickly. The Festival is a far cry from beating up one or two serious opponents.
Get the stop watch out Stilvi, take the fractions of the Albert Bartlett. Tom Scu got went a suicidal pace, even Arkle would’ve been emptying. Ignore that run (other than the probability KP "has to lead").
I have just looked back at the race and I am wondering if we are talking about the same race.
Up to you if you want to seek excuses but I am happy to believe he was just found wanting in a much more competitive race than he had previously encountered.
If the pace was suicidal why were there around a dozen horses (most travelling pretty well) in relatively close contention for such a long time? Deputy Dan raced only a few lengths off the lead throughout and still finished second. Are you really suggesting he produced a performance comparable to Arkle?
I was watching this race GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkYMtEjEEU.
I don’t see how you could view it any other way. Killala Quay is ridden to take it up from Coneygree and de Boinville sits perfectly still. There’s no rousting along to regain the lead, no sulking from Coneygree and no sloppy jumping once he loses it. Nico just keeps him handy to ensure Killala Quay doesn’t try to slow things down.
So long as there is a testing pace in the race, Coneygree is happy.
I think this race is a tad overvalued as to form. The market proved that.
Taquin Du Seuil we have been told finally by JJ O Neill he doesn’t stay 3 miles.
Harry Topper has "gone" and won’t run again.
Unioniste isn’t that good, 6th in the Hennessy where Houblon Des Obeaux was 3rd. If using him as a reliable yardstick (a horse who hasn’t won since Dec 13 beating the moody Cedre Bleu by a neck) then Coneygree won’t get anywhere near Silviniaco Conti.
As impressive to the eye as it was, this was not a great race and I think novices should stick to exactly that. The Gold Cup would be way too big a leap I think.I think this race is a tad overvalued as to form. The market proved that.
Taquin Du Seuil we have been told finally by JJ O Neill he doesn’t stay 3 miles.
Harry Topper has "gone" and won’t run again.
Unioniste isn’t that good, 6th in the Hennessy where Houblon Des Obeaux was 3rd. If using him as a reliable yardstick (a horse who hasn’t won since Dec 13 beating the moody Cedre Bleu by a neck) then Coneygree won’t get anywhere near Silviniaco Conti.
As impressive to the eye as it was, this was not a great race and I think novices should stick to exactly that. The Gold Cup would be way too big a leap I think.We must be Psychic Twins Harvey:-
https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … 0&start=39
I was first by three minutes if anyone’s wondering
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
I think this race is a tad overvalued as to form. The market proved that.
Taquin Du Seuil we have been told finally by JJ O Neill he doesn’t stay 3 miles.
Harry Topper has "gone" and won’t run again.
Unioniste isn’t that good, 6th in the Hennessy where Houblon Des Obeaux was 3rd. If using him as a reliable yardstick (a horse who hasn’t won since Dec 13 beating the moody Cedre Bleu by a neck) then Coneygree won’t get anywhere near Silviniaco Conti.
As impressive to the eye as it was, this was not a great race and I think novices should stick to exactly that. The Gold Cup would be way too big a leap I think.We must be Psychic Twins Harvey:-
https://theracingforum.co.uk/horse-r … 0&start=39
I was first by three minutes if anyone’s wondering
Ha ha, fair play, great minds and all that. Hadn’t seen your post, but it was put across far more eloquently!
I was watching this race GT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjkYMtEjEEU.
I don’t see how you could view it any other way. Killala Quay is ridden to take it up from Coneygree and de Boinville sits perfectly still. There’s no rousting along to regain the lead, no sulking from Coneygree and no sloppy jumping once he loses it. Nico just keeps him handy to ensure Killala Quay doesn’t try to slow things down.
So long as there is a testing pace in the race, Coneygree is happy.
It’s Carraig Mor, not Killala Quay.
If you stop the re-run 1:26 in to the race, you’ll see the two leaders not that far in front of a reasonably packed field. Then take a look at it again 20 seconds later 1:46. There was a significant upping of pace. Even the commentator mentions it.As is often the case, pace slackens a little around the turn. Once the two seem to agree on travelling "alongsides" they keep station until Carraig Mor falls. As I said, Coneygree was only 1/2 a length down at one jump, all the others he was at least upsides, mostly in front. Horses like Coneygree do not mind being upsides, disputing it. It’s when they’re behind horses the problems can come.
Nico doesn’t need to "roust" Coneygree along, because that’s how Coneygree likes to race. Natural enthusiasm and will to lead takes him there. What I mean is: On a horse that does not mind being in behind Nico would have let Fehily lead on Carraig Mor; had he done so with Coneygree the horse would either have fought the jockey and/or jumped worse than usual.
At any fence: So long as Coneygree leads or disputes it (alongside the leader) he’s "happy" TYF.
Value Is EverythingI don’t see King’s Palace doing any better than last year. Once headed I can see the tank emptying all too quickly. The Festival is a far cry from beating up one or two serious opponents.
Get the stop watch out Stilvi, take the fractions of the Albert Bartlett. Tom Scu got went a suicidal pace, even Arkle would’ve been emptying. Ignore that run (other than the probability KP "has to lead").
I have just looked back at the race and I am wondering if we are talking about the same race.
Up to you if you want to seek excuses but I am happy to believe he was just found wanting in a much more competitive race than he had previously encountered.
If the pace was suicidal why were there around a dozen horses (most travelling pretty well) in relatively close contention for such a long time? Deputy Dan raced only a few lengths off the lead throughout and still finished second. Are you really suggesting he produced a performance comparable to Arkle?
It’s an exaggeration about Arkle, but you get my point.
I must have been watching a different race to you Stilvi, because to my mind most were being pushed along some way out. Only around 4 horses were going well eneough at the top of the hill.
Kings Palace being three lengths clear of Deputy Dan throughout can be a significant amount in a strongly run race. In my opinion Very Wood was grossly flattered (to a certain degree Apache Jack too) and had Deputy Dan been hung on to for longer… would’ve been close between the two.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa9-7S1pmjs
Value Is EverythingOops, got my Carraig Mor and Killala Quay truly muddled there.
I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on most of it GT. My main view is that you cannot use the presence of other front-runners like Kings Palace to knock Coneygree’s chance in the RSA or Gold Cup. I think he’s tractable enough to simply run his own race no matter what the others are doing. I think he’d be content to simply sit handy and accept a lead with de Boinville taking the view that "anything going faster than Coneygree is going
too fast
".
Horses are creatures of habit, if capable of "accepting a lead" connections usually do so at least once before a Festival. Don’t get me wrong; I may end up backing him myself, darn good horse. You may well be right TYF, might settle well when taken on. Always looking for negatives as well as positives about all horses. We won’t know until it happens, so it’s got to be a negative to some degree if there’s another similar type also in the field (Kings Palace RSA). Biggest positive is Coneygree is the best staying novice seen. But if he were mine, I’d go for the Gold Cup where more likely to get his own way.
It’s an even bigger negative for Kings Palace if the two meet; because he’s even more "enthusiastic" on the front.
Value Is Everything
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