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Pipe stable in good form, expect Grand Crus to hack up.
Good shout.
Makes the World Hurdle more interesting, but I’d prefer Big Bucks at odds against.
Zip
Very impressive from Grand Crus – put the race to bed in a matter of strides after the second last. If he can inject that sort of pace in a stronger run race, he just might get Big Bucks in trouble.
Does anyone know whether Fiveforthree is being seriously trained for the Stayers?
- Total Posts 17716
What you have to ask yourselves is what would Big Buck’s have done to that lot?
Million zillion miles away from taking on the PN superstar I’m afraid unless you are influenced by the media selling you a big challenge that doesn’t really exist. . Lovely horse but he wouldn’t blow wind up Big Buck’s backside and won’t get within 5 lengths of him.
What you have to ask yourselves is what would Big Buck’s have done to that lot?
Probably beaten them two lengths and left everyone guessing how much is left in the tank.
What you have to ask yourselves is what would Big Buck’s have done to that lot?
Million zillion miles away from taking on the PN superstar I’m afraid unless you are influenced by the media selling you a big challenge that doesn’t really exist. . Lovely horse but he wouldn’t blow wind up Big Buck’s backside and won’t get within 5 lengths of him.
Big Bucks has never done anything like Grand Crus did to that lot yesterday. As Stilvi says, that’s not his style so the above opening statement seems irrelevant. He would have beat them of course and it’s hard to see him being beaten at Cheltenham but would hardly have been any more impressive than Grand Crus was yesterday. All the great champions get beaten one day, who is to say it won’t happen this year. After all, who really knows how good Grand Crus is until he gets beaten. I’m not influenced by the media, I use my own eyes and in my opinion the challenge does exist.
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I’ve already written this elsewhere but I should explain my thinking.
First off there’s no denying this race like many on crappy ground fell apart. The time of the race certainly doesn’t indicate it was anything special Local Hero’s race was 18 seconds slow and was run at a crawl. Crand Crus was 22 seconds slow.
On a line through Restless Harry Timeform have rated him 183P which seems ok but that rating is attached to Big Buck’s also beating Resteless Harry but with one huge differnece.
Grand Crus is the perfect racehorse and the type you don’t have to set alight to get him to race. If you watch him coming down the hill Tom Scudamore slaps him on the neck and he takes off in full flight and never stops until he’s pulled up. If Tom Scu had picked up his whip the horse wouldn’t have found a yard more as he was going as fast as he could and he was no more than a passenger.
According to AP Big Buck’s was never of the bridle at any point at Newbury and it certainly looked that way of what we could see of it…..He’s beaten Restless Harry 6 lengths without breaking sweat. Timeform will which will have people thinking he’s a real challenger but I wouldn’t put Grand Crus’s performance within a stone of Big Bick’s simply because of the type of horses they are.
I’ve already written this elsewhere but I should explain my thinking.
First off there’s no denying this race like many on crappy ground fell apart. The time of the race certainly doesn’t indicate it was anything special Local Hero’s race was 18 seconds slow and was run at a crawl. Crand Crus was 22 seconds slow.
On a line through Restless Harry Timeform have rated him 183P which seems ok but that rating is attached to Big Buck’s also beating Resteless Harry but with one huge differnece.
Grand Crus is the perfect racehorse and the type you don’t have to set alight to get him to race. If you watch him coming down the hill Tom Scudamore slaps him on the neck and he takes off in full flight and never stops until he’s pulled up. If Tom Scu had picked up his whip the horse wouldn’t have found a yard more as he was going as fast as he could and he was no more than a passenger.
According to AP Big Buck’s was never of the bridle at any point at Newbury and it certainly looked that way of what we could see of it…..He’s beaten Restless Harry 6 lengths without breaking sweat. Timeform will which will have people thinking he’s a real challenger but I wouldn’t put Grand Crus’s performance within a stone of Big Bick’s simply because of the type of horses they are.
I agree with most of what you’ve said here, but that to me is where the challenge for Big Buck’s arises. If there is some give in the ground and Grand Crus quickens like he did yesterday, will Big Buck’s be able to quicken with him. He’s never been put under any real pressure recently and who knows what will happen if he is.
If nothing else we should now see how good Big Buck’s is. Because he pulls himself up in front, he only beats whatever the opposition is by a length or two. This time around there will be something there to test him. I believe Timeform still rate him on the win against Punchestowns. Not met anything as good since. Be nice to see that horse back over hurdles too. Although I reckon his poor form is more to do with a physical / temperament problem.
A race to saver.
Hope there is some give in the ground come March. Grands Crus has been taken out of a race on good going. Might have to lay off my 20/1 each way Grand Crus.
Fingers Crossed.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
When’s the last time you saw Big Buck’s pull himself up in front Ginge?
He hasn’t idled in front since 19 0’plonkYou really should watch more racing instead of playing with your calculator
You would still expect Big Bucks to win, but credit where it is due, he made that look incredibly easy. Was also a good ride by tom Scu, who did not panic when the horse was pulling hard in early stages of the race. I backed him at 5/1 in the World Hurdle without Big Bucks market, and definitely looks good value now!
What you have to ask yourselves is what would Big Buck’s have done to that lot?
Million zillion miles away from taking on the PN superstar I’m afraid unless you are influenced by the media selling you a big challenge that doesn’t really exist. . Lovely horse but he wouldn’t blow wind up Big Buck’s backside and won’t get within 5 lengths of him.
Ah Fist, you’re at that old protesting too much bit again.
A word of caution, old fella : remember your words vis-a-vis Kauto Star and Long Run before they crossed swords in the King George. Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
When’s the last time you saw Big Buck’s pull himself up in front Ginge?
He hasn’t idled in front since 19 0’plonkYou really should watch more racing instead of playing with your calculator
My "length or two" is an exaggeration Fist, said to make a point.Connections know in the past, BB has idled in front. I agree, he is nowhere near as bad as he used to be. But they don’t want to take the chance of hitting the front and idling too much. To allow another horse to catch him. Therefore they wait until after the last before hitting the front.
By doing this: Against vastly inferior opposition, we don’t see what BB’s true superiority really is. This year, with a rival who could give him a race; they might go clear of the rest. And we might see just how good Big Bucks is.
In my opinion he’s the best staying hurdler we’ve ever seen.
Although there is still a way of beating him.
For Grands Crus to take it up and go 8 lengths clear (with BB) down the hill. Then, leave room for BB on the inner.
Before the last Scu surprises BB’s jockey, by moving Grands Crus in a diagonal towards the Stand side. Leaving BB totally alone and idles (much more likely if on his own). Grands Crus goes wide and wins.Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
Yeah right Ginge, don’t give up your day job.Good idea! only I do believe the shortest distance between two points is in a straight line.
Just wondering if you know what an optical illusion is? I thought Grand Crus looked as if he was flying dowqn the hill but was he?
Here’s food for thought.
From the 2nd last to the line Tiday bay 1minute 3seconds on very soft ground and was held up for fully 20 seconds before his jockey asked him to quicken. He Time For Rupert and Katchit looked like they were bouncing up and down on the same spot in the ground when they hit the hill.
Grand Crus covered the same distance on good to soft in 1min 1.15 seconds and went for home fully 15 seconds before Tidal Bay and he according to the comentator flew up the hill.
Times don’t lie and all is not what it seems when ahorse is racing alone.
If Grand Cruz is even going to get Big Bucks off the bridle he’ll have to find alot more and his style of racing says he wont.
Now bog off my head is spinning
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What you have to ask yourselves is what would Big Buck’s have done to that lot?
Million zillion miles away from taking on the PN superstar I’m afraid unless you are influenced by the media selling you a big challenge that doesn’t really exist. . Lovely horse but he wouldn’t blow wind up Big Buck’s backside and won’t get within 5 lengths of him.
Ah Fist, you’re at that old protesting too much bit again.
A word of caution, old fella : remember your words vis-a-vis Kauto Star and Long Run before they crossed swords in the King George. Not quite the same is it "H" Big Bucks’s hasn’t show the slightest hint he might be slowing down and the World Hurdle doesn’t have the same pit falls as the likes of the Gold Cup and is most often won by the form horse for that reason. If anything BB’s is improving. Even Tom Scu said today he thought Lough Derg was goinstill going very strongly at Newbury and although Dud De Regnier couldn’t get near him he couldn’t believe how easily Big Bucks cut down a 30 length defecit and went past him with AP absolutely motionless.
Lotta wishful thinking going on here that there’s abig showdon on the cards but this horse won a couple of crap races and has yet to meet anything remotely close to Big Buck’s class. Lovely horse but World Hurdle class.
Timeform rating is based on the fact half the employees backed Grand Crus at big odds for the WH and they are trying to convince themsleves they’ve stolen a march.
During the interview with Tom Scu it was suggested he could perhaps win the Champion Hurdle ….shows you just how much rubbish they talk and those who listen will lose their proverbials this time.IMExtremelyVHO
Look Fist, we know the score – both of us weren’t born yesterday. Yes, Big Buck’s sets the standards in the Grade 1, 3 mile races. He is a great champion and at this point in time, remains the one to beat.
However, like all champions, he’s there to be shot at, and as Paul Nicholls rightly said, sooner or later he’ll get beat – and that is why I’m willing to take a punt on Grand Crus being the very horse to beat him.
Grand Crus may not have beaten that much – but when you analyze Big Buck’s form, he hasn’t exactly faced the stiffest of opponents in the last two years; certainly not one with the ability of Grand Crus.
Although he won the World Hurdle tidily enough last year, he did have to be shaken up to assert his authority over Time For Rupert – who, although now a very good 3 miles novice chaser, also wouldn’t (imo) blow smoke up Grand Crus’s a**e – to use one of your favourite expressions.
Put it this way, Fist – should the heavens open and the hallowed Cheltenham turf becomes softer by the hour come World Hurdle day, my confidence in Grand Crus attaining the three mile staying hurdlers’ crown will multiply by the second.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
There is an assumption that Grands Crus is going to try and kick away from Big Bucks. Why? Big Bucks wants a target so why give him one? We know Big Bucks isn’t going to try and kick clear but we don’t know what will happen should both horses still be on the bridle running to the last.
For me this is now the most interesting race of the Fesival with a real opportunity to see exactly what Big Bucks has in the locker.
He hasn’t idled in front since 19 0’plonk
A word of caution, old fella : remember your words vis-a-vis Kauto Star and Long Run before they crossed swords in the King George. 
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