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Will Neptune Colloges go for the Gold Cup this year beckster, or will he concentrate on his races in Ireland?
oh what a suprise to c fof being rude to someone else… just ignore him i do lol…………it is fists way or the highway, well supposedly ha ha
What are you going on about…..rude to who? I asked a simple question and if you have nothing to add to the discussion other than childish idiotic remarks leave it out and stop making an idiot of yourself……..next time I wont be the one replying to you as I am sick to hell of your personal attacks.
Not a month in and we have the old Arkle saga beling dragged out again. Yawn. Cue the responses……..
Personally I cannot have this whole Arkle thing, never have, never will (whilst not trying to suggest that he was not a very very good horse). To mind there is something askew in these figures and nothing will convince me otherwise.
Thats me finished with this tired (imo) old discussion.
That’s about the most idiotic ignorant post I have ever read on here……not worthy of any other responses. Other than you could be right and all the jockeys trainers handicapper sports jounalists and punters of the time got it wrong..Yawn!!! is right go back to bed and give up racing mate you obviously don’t have a clue about the game
So tis is not a rude personel attack???? its haRDLY NICE IS IT?
Will Neptune Colloges go for the Gold Cup this year beckster, or will he concentrate on his races in Ireland?
HI MOE YES NIPPER IS AIMED PURELY AT THE SECOND HALF OF SEASON THIS TIME THINK HIS 1ST RACE WILL BE LEXUS CHACE, then a trip out in febuary, then ready for the goldcup and hopefully back to punchestown, be fab if he could do the hat trick lol, he was almost 2nd by a small way last years gold cup so this year hope he does even better , thankyou moe xx
Not a month in and we have the old Arkle saga beling dragged out again. Yawn. Cue the responses……..
Personally I cannot have this whole Arkle thing, never have, never will (whilst not trying to suggest that he was not a very very good horse). To mind there is something askew in these figures and nothing will convince me otherwise.
Thats me finished with this tired (imo) old discussion.
It ill behoves me not to respond when I have the exalted beast’s majestic photo splashed on my avatar. Dare I say, and with all due respect, I’m with Mr. Fist on this one.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Thanks H but it’s something we can forgive younger members not understanding.
On the subject of Neptune Collonges he is pretty much the obvious choice for the Gold Cup perhaps even more so than Exotic Dancer, if the big 2 were to fall too our worst fears. However while Denman and Kauto are around we can only hope for place money. DEspite the proxinity of NC and KS in last years race I still believe KS is a world apart from everything bar Denman of course……these are 2 mean machines when on song……If they go there fit and well I could see one or the other running a bad race and NC sneaking 2nd but it’s a bit to much to hope for on his part that both will falter.
The Gold Cup is the one race I would rather back an even money winner in than a 16/1 horse that ran 2nd….I get more pleasure out of looking back and saying I backed the winner than I do to say I backed so and so each way and made a few quid.
Thanks H but it’s something we can forgive younger members not understanding.
To be fair Fist, it’s not about understanding. If you read my post earlier in this thread (page 4, about two-thirds down), you’ll see that it’s more than feasible to deduce that 212 was overblown (not directly through hype either, I may add).
I also agree with Mr Fist about Arkle but do understand why the youngsters don’t understand..to have a horse that, no matter what the ground conditions, distance or weight, is still [almost] guaranteed to win for year after year is amazing no question marks at all over anything except the occasional clever tactic…the perfect horse [and I’m a Mill House Fan as well]
I think it’s hard for the younger generation(s) to understand Arkle.
I’m only 26 and began watching racing the final season Dessie was around. My only memory of him to this day was that crashing fall he took in the ’91 King George.
It’s hard for many to imagine just how good Arkle and Dessie were. It’ll be the same when I’m (touch wood) telling the youngsters of tomorrow how good the likes of Istabraq, Moscow Flyer, Best Mate, Kauto Star and Denman were in forty or fifty years time.
Arkle didn’t belong to me, but I respect what he achieved and what he did for NH racing. I’d imagine he attracted a fair few people to the sport.
It’s the same in any sport. Older generations still reminisce about the likes of George Best and Bobby Charlton. Legendary players, but they don’t belong to todays generation and it’s futile trying to compare them to the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Steven Gerrard.
Arkle is THE legendary figure of NH racing. I believe his best winning time for a Gold Cup is only a second slower than the record. Incredible when you consider the advances in training, nutrition etc.
Clarification?
Bos,
Time comparisons aren’t really relevant. In Arkle’s time, the Gold Cup start was behind the stands, approximately where the saddling boxes are now, and they joined the current track where the horses now pull up and ran behind where the Best Mate enclosure is now. And then they raced on what is now the Old Course, not the one used for the Gold Cup these days.
That’s why you only ever see the last two fences on those old film clips and never the start!
I have the full 1964 Gold Cup race on dvd – the start included.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I think it’s hard for the younger generation(s) to understand Arkle.
I’m only 26 and began watching racing the final season Dessie was around. My only memory of him to this day was that crashing fall he took in the ’91 King George.
It’s hard for many to imagine just how good Arkle and Dessie were. It’ll be the same when I’m (touch wood) telling the youngsters of tomorrow how good the likes of Istabraq, Moscow Flyer, Best Mate, Kauto Star and Denman were in forty or fifty years time.
Arkle didn’t belong to me, but I respect what he achieved and what he did for NH racing. I’d imagine he attracted a fair few people to the sport.
It’s the same in any sport. Older generations still reminisce about the likes of George Best and Bobby Charlton. Legendary players, but they don’t belong to todays generation and it’s futile trying to compare them to the likes of Cristiano Ronaldo and Steven Gerrard.
Arkle is THE legendary figure of NH racing. I believe his best winning time for a Gold Cup is only a second slower than the record. Incredible when you consider the advances in training, nutrition etc.
Clarification?
These are interesting points Bos. See this Arkle thing just doesn’t make sense to me. In just about every other sport (certianly that I can think of) athletes are considered to have immproved over time (training methods, etc) but some horse racing fans just absolutely flat refuse to accept this may be the case with horses. Any reason? Especially the craeful breeding of the breed over 40 years (on which I will admit I am no expect).
You quote Istabraq, Moscow etc as legends which they certainly are! But will you also be claiming that these could give approx 3 stone to other horses and still give them a schlacking? I doubt it, and even in you were, maybe a bit of the rose couloured glass syndrome? I would suggest so.
No, it make much more sence to suggest that there isn’t something quite correct about the figures at work here. maybe some of TRFs handicappers could inform me if it was, realisticallly, possible for a horse to ever achieve this figure ever again?
This Arkle thing doesn’t make sense to most of us (
), that is why the likes of Sir Peter O’Sullevan described the horse as a freak of nature. Any horse who has to have the rules of racing amended simply to give opponents a chance of winning has to be something very special indeed – irrespective of which era they competed in. Only six horses finished in front of Arkle in 26 steeplechases. He won 22 of those races – most of them impressively. He never fell during any of them.
He lost only four times – once, just out of novice company to Mill House ( Arkle finished 3rd) ; twice, giving massive lumps of weight away to good horses at Cheltenham and Newbury ( finishing a close second and third respectively), and in his last race, where he ran the final two miles with a broken pedal bone and still finished second.
Were he running today, he’d beat anything put in front of him at levels, – of that I’m sure, and would most probably have conceded them a few pounds or two along the way. He would have toyed with Denman and Kauto Star round Cheltenham.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Thanks H but it’s something we can forgive younger members not understanding.
To be fair Fist, it’s not about understanding. If you read my post earlier in this thread (page 4, about two-thirds down), you’ll see that it’s more than feasible to deduce that 212 was overblown (not directly through hype either, I may add).
The thing was Friggo as H points out they amended the rules to give the others a chance. The result was it made no difference Arkle still beat them and "Weight couldn’t bring them together" as they say. Even when he did lose it took a mess up by Patte Taffe(blamed himself) and a distance way to short for him to do it.
Just imagine if Denman was set to give Kauto Star a stone and a half round Sandown….Kauto Star would be 1/7 fav….with Arkle it was the other way round he gave the that weight and an absolute thrashing to a great horse in Mill House…..to emphasise it was no fluke he knocked 16 seconds of the course record in the process……..he wasn’t handed 212 on a plate he earned every bit of it.
Our friend H loves Denman and wont hear of him being beaten but you just have to you read his post and opinion to realizehow special Arkle was, H is virtually saying the mighty Denman is a second rater in comparison.
I suppose you had to be there to explain just what affect Arkle had on the racing game and how good he really was……..in 40 years I have never heard anyone, who is anyone, question that.
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That performance doesn’t bode well for Kauto Star’s Festival chances – he was absolutely knackered when he came down.
It would appear that claims he was back to his best following his victory in Ireland were indeed premature.
Sam Thomas seems to think Kauto would have won if he had stood up!
I actually agree with you Equitrack, he was shattered!- Total Posts 17716
He may well have won as nothing was going particularly well, but it isn’t often you see Kauto Star labouring so badly.
Is there a chance that Paul Nicholls has a small problem at Ditcheat? He’s had a number of short-priced horses beaten in the last seven days, all looking to struggle in the closing stages. Indeed, Poquelin should have had little problem in beating the likes of Cheating Chance at Ascot having won a much stronger race at Cheltenham last time (jumped poorly and was seemingly out of the race approaching the last).
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