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Hi
I’m new so forgive me if you’ve done this before.
Burrough Hill Lad won a Gold Cup then won a Hennessy before scrambling home in a King George that ended up a match.
He then suffered injury and was never the same again.He was a fantastic racehorse.
Bregawn won a Hennessy and then a Gold Cup.The following season he was never the same horse and ended up with a Timeform double squiggle.
Denman has won Henessy and GC and low and behold he has a heart problem.The horse is very unlikely to ever be the same horse we saw last season.The trainer has told us he has a problem but we don’t want to hear the truth so we are pretending the trainer has a magic wand.Even the trainer doesn’t want to believe it, but Denmans best is behind him.You obviously haven’t followed the story too closely. He had an irrecular heartbeat which is fairly common and easy to trat. I think I am right in saying in the vast majority of cases once treated it seldom returns.
They say he is absolutely fine and he is of such a high profile if something were wrong he would be front page news by now.
As far as Bregawn goes he was always a bit of a charachter. He came up through the ranks as a young horse finishing behind Silver Buck one yaer and with natural improvement one the following year. He was alwasy a bit of a rougue and the older they get the wiser they get..he got too wise and chucked it
Burrough Hill Lad was as you say a great horse but it was always a matter of time before he would have to be retired. He was plagued with injuries all his life and never really got going until he was 7. I think you aree referring to his victory over Comb’s Ditch in the King George. Comb’s Ditch was one hellluva horse and the left Wayward Lad in their wakes that day. BHL had one the Hennessy a few weeks before carrying a hod of bricks on his back and Kempton wasn’t exactly taylormade for him.
Can’t see any similarity between him and Denman who has never had an injury in his life as far as I know. But I hear what you are saying and of course it causes a little doubt.
However he’s got some of the best staff and care you could hope for in the racing world around him. Im sure he’ll be fine and dandy.
Plus if there was a hint of anything being wrong the lads would know and in turn so would the bookies.
Only time will tell who is right or wrong.Denman has a heart problem which is enough to keep him off the track until the new year at the earliest.If it was something and nothing why isn’t he in full work yet, no matter on the racecourse?
I hope my concerns are misplaced, but steeplechasing is a tough game and Denman wouldnt be the first to fall by the wayside due to ill health or injury.Not a month in and we have the old Arkle saga beling dragged out again. Yawn. Cue the responses……..
Personally I cannot have this whole Arkle thing, never have, never will (whilst not trying to suggest that he was not a very very good horse). To mind there is something askew in these figures and nothing will convince me otherwise.
Thats me finished with this tired (imo) old discussion.
That’s about the most idiotic ignorant post I have ever read on here……not worthy of any other responses. Other than you could be right and all the jockeys trainers handicapper sports jounalists and punters of the time got it wrong..Yawn!!! is right go back to bed and give up racing mate you obviously don’t have a clue about the game
Of course you would view it as "idiotc" and "ignorant". Anything which doesn’t agree with your point of view would be.
You only have to look at ratings 15 years ago to realise they were "wrong" in comparrison to what they are now. Ratings now whilst still baffling at times are far different from what they were way back when. No way would Arkle be rated 212 in this day and age.
If you take a direct line through Exotic Dancer (for example) you could probably rate Denman around 200 for his Gold Cup win which of course is ridiculous but its and indication of how ratings can vary depending on how you compile them.
These days people are in the main far more knowledgable and everything is far more advanced than it was in the 1980’s let alone the 1960’s.
Was The Minstrel really a 137 horse or Shergar 140? Would Shergar have beaten New Approach by about 14 lengths (approx) over 12f? Of course he wouldn’t but thats what ratings suggest.
If The Minstrel is a ten length better horse than Authorized then I clearly don’t know one end of a horse from another.
Yes they had to compile two handicaps one with Arkle one without but that says more about the primitive nature of the system than it does the horse.
No doubt he was a special horse, without question but his rating needs to be taken with a very large dose of salt.
In terms of this ratings debate, Arkle’s 212 stems from Timeform. They also made Seabird 145 (highest rating on a Flat horse ever) and Flyingbolt 210 (second-highest jumps rating, 19 lb clear of the rest IIRC) at around the same time. At the back of Timeform’s Statistical Review (Flat) there is a history of the highest-rated horses in each division (2yos, sprinters etc) since 1960. A quick glance tells me that ratings dished out in the 60’s were habitually overstated compared to modern times- for example, every champion juvenile that decade was rated 130-plus. Arkle is undoubtedly the best horse to set foot on a racecourse but 212 is, quite simply, nonsense.
You can’t respond like that Fists. Telling sone to "go back to bed and give up racing" etc. No offence but you haven’t got the foggiest with regard to handicapping / ratings, you proved (and admitted) as much on the Hennessy thread, so calm down with the insults.
Having backed Denman Ante-post for the 07 Sun alliance ch at 7/1 and the 08 Gold Cup at 10/1 i could be bias to the Champ! But i am of the opinion that Kauto Star ran below his best in Denmans Gold Cup and believe that on Good/soft ground Kauto will seek his revenge on his stable companion! Neither appeal as Ante-post propositions as i believe in the
Young pretender Albertas Run at 33/1 to be placed and i know his season will be geared to getting to the Gold Cup! Thats how highly he is regarded
by connections!He’s way inferior to ED at the moment can’t see him figuring outside of Handicap company if Denman,Kauto, Neptune and ED are around.
Jonjo has said Don’t Push It and A’s Run could end up being Gold Cup horses but that is wishful thinking and nothing else.
You can’t respond like that Fists. Telling sone to "go back to bed and give up racing" etc. No offence but you haven’t got the foggiest with regard to handicapping / ratings, you proved (and admitted) as much on the Hennessy thread, so calm down with the insults.
I certainly do’t take them as gospel as some punters do I grant you that. I doubt if he ran today if it would change though….you never seen Arkle out on his feet the way Denman and Kauto were that’s for sure.
I think the Master Minded rating is 1000’s time worse than Arkle’s was. That’s why I ignore the for the best part….If I satered depending on them I would go back to be and give up racing
Anyway it was nothing to do with Alchemist disagreeing with me..He entitled to but you can disagree with someone without being downright rude. Yawn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boys we really are in f or a mouth watering Gold Cup this year…If Denman is right he will win it,If Kauto is back to his best will he win it, If tidal Bay gets the trip he can win it,Exotic Dancer back to his best!!! Albertas Run with a shout, And of course the old favourite War of Attrition…..Roll on…What Genuine Contenders have i forgot??
If both turn up fit and well then the 2009 GC will be won by Kauto Star or Denman. My personal pick is the obvious one (Denman) at this moment in time but if Kauto is back to his best then he is a serious contender.
Neptune Collonges will likely bag a place if conditions are right and the race is run to suit.
Tidal Bay looks very good but can’t see him beating the big two this season. One for the future though if he follows the GC route.
Exotic Dancer and War of Attrition – both very good horses and on their day could battle for a place.
Albertas Run – as much as I like this horse (and I do) it has no chance of winning a Gold Cup in the near future unless it improves dramatically, imo.
Would have to agree witth you on that score. He’s like 1stone plenty behing Exotic Dancer never mind Denman and Kauto…..At the weight he has in the Hennessy he would be 1/14 to win it if he was on a par with them.
Albertas Run is 14/1 for the Hennessey and is the best e/w bet of the season so far!
oh what a suprise to c fof being rude to someone else… just ignore him i do lol…………it is fists way or the highway, well supposedly ha ha
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