- This topic has 622 replies, 97 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 7 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
There is little doubt Denman was at the end of his thether in the Gold Cup and had something been good enough to join him on the run in he wouldn’t have found anything.
A flogging is a bit harsh though. The horse was lovely and relaxed for the first circuit and Sam never really had to get after him until half way up the run in. The average horse would normallly recover from that in about 3 to 4 weeks.
By pure coincidence he had a minor heart problem a few months later.
If he wasn’t a racehorse they probably wouldn’t have treated his ailment and it would have sorted itself out in time.
The fact he wasn’t right took it’s toll but it would on any horse. Through medical advice the horse wasn’t doing a tap for months and of course he wouldn’t look the same horse.
BY all acounts he is back in fulll swing and if he can run a decent race in the GC and come out of it showing no signs of his previous problem, then PN can get back to some serious work and get him back. This is the only way they can find out if the horse can stand up to racing.
That will be the plan and hopefully this time next year Denman will be goigg to Cheltenham a much fitter horse than we expect to see this year.
KS looks a good bet if he drifts in price say 9/4 or so ,taking on a bunch of handycappers ! fill your boots lads
Aristo – even the owner has stated that he thought the Gold CUp done the horse in… Sam T threw everything at him to keep him going up the hill when he was almost flooping to the floor… If you dont think that would have an effect on the horses heart then i’m not sure what you think was the cause… Maybe someone just shouted BOO at him a few weeks later?
fair point however lastyears gc was a good race, yet you only have to think back over the years when previous winners bestmate oneman just two of the top of my head have won and legless crossing the finishing post.. but also yea by saying sam flogged denman is rubbish what would connections said had he not really rode the finish to become 2nd?? x
This is just a hunch… but it may affect Denman’s price (if not his chances).
At Kempton it was remarked upon that Denman did not ‘look himself’, he is a liver chestnut and has turned up to at least one previous Festival covered in blotches, so he is not easy to having looking handsome at the best of times.
However, it was noticeable that he was not platted up and this gave him a scruffy and unkempt look at Sunbury, which was factored into his performance retrospectively. My take, FWIW…. was that platting a horse gives it the information that it is about to race and can start a tightening process in the animal, given his heart condition they probably wanted to have the Champ’ as relaxed as possible for as long as possible before the Aon/Levy Board race.
Come Gold Cup day they are likely to revert to their usual preparation and have the horse looking much more toned and groomed than 4 weeks ago. If I am right, this will be seen as a big positive pre race and could move the market in his favour. All conjecture but wouldn’t surprise me.Strangely enough I had a similar thought about Denmans appearance.. He did not look like the tank although I never linked it to the horses psychology, I interpreted it as a reflection of the trainers thoughts about the horse. I think Nicholl’s undercooked him far more than he thought.
Denman was all out winning last year – he was out on his feet and wouldnt have found anything if something came up. He put his effort in before and nothing was going to come past I think thats the point. Most winners have almost walked over the line in good to soft or worse – there is nothing wrong with that because its the test that it is. One concern is that he looked at his peak last year and nothing could live with him – we will find out what condition he is in next week i guess.
The only recent Denman was all out last year is because Thomas went for home too soon. He recorded quicker sectionals at one point than in the Grand Annual! Putting aside everything before in since that day but Denman was as Mark Johnston might say ‘much the best’ in last year’s Gold Cup.
7/1 tempts me for this year’s race.
I wasn’t too hopeful after Kempton, but after seeing the Luke Harvey interview the other day with PN, he seemed pleased with his recent progress (Denman’s, not Luke Harvey’s). Still don’t think he’ll win, but I’m really hopeful of a better performance.
Denman owes me nothing, having backed him Ante-post for both his festival wins at 7/1 and 10/1 respectively! He is 7/1 again and i wouldn"t
touch him with a barge pole, that Kempton run still bothers me, nothing
from parade ring to winners enclosure via his actual performance showed
me anything anywhere near the Real Denman and i would be amazed if
he could come back from that, this season!Denman looks wrong to me. It was not what Nicholls said that interested me with the Luke Harvey interview, but how Denman looked. I know it’s only from TV but his coat was poor. The way he ran at Kempton, it was like a different horse. After the first couple of fences you could see his ears were back, not enjoying things and not jumping with his usual enthusiasm. Beaten three out and had what I thought a hard race. Surprised Ruby did not allow Denman to come home in his own time. I am in two minds whether I want Denman to line up. Would like to see the Champion back defending his crown. But fear with another bad experience, may never get back that zest for racing that characterised his early years. Think if he takes part will end up being pulled up. If he looks the same on the day, I would not take 10/1 let alone 7’s.
Mark
Value Is EverythingThe truth is that Denman, whilst burning Kauto and the others off in last year’s Gold Cup, burnt himself out in the process.
I am still not tempted to take any price about him repeating last year’s Homeric feat.
His run at Kempton was indicative of a horse that has cried enough – in my opinion !
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Good to hear the word "Homeric" – is there not some sort of prize for using it?
Zip
Good to hear the word "Homeric" – is there not some sort of prize for using it?
Zip
Yes… and I’ve ate it all up.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
I still plain and simply that Denman went to Kempton half cocked and of course he wouldn’t look like himself.
Common sense tells me they wanted to know how he would stand up to a race and went out there seeking an answer with no intentions of winning anything.
They got their answer. The horse is fine and on his way back.
All this talk about him not loking right or he wasn’t right in his caot while correct is totally unimportant.
He ran his normal race at Cheltenham last season and the hill stopped him as he was tired. Much in the same way as he did when beaten by Nicanor in the Sun Alliance Hurdle.
Denman is a galloper not a speed horse and has never shown much toe in a finish and had every right to be tired at the end of the gold cup. Out on his feet? sure but many many horse like Desert Orchid for exapmle have done the same.
All Denman neds is time and it may take 10 days or it may take 10 months but you can bet your life he’ll be back as good as ever IMO
The only recent Denman was all out last year is because Thomas went for home too soon. He recorded quicker sectionals at one point than in the Grand Annual! Putting aside everything before in since that day but Denman was as Mark Johnston might say ‘much the best’ in last year’s Gold Cup.
7/1 tempts me for this year’s race.
I think its extremely harsh to say Thomas went too soon, Denman won a very strong Gold Cup by seven lengths. They had a plan to break Kauto mid race and it worked. Because of the way they ran the race Denman was never going to be powering up the hill but race was won by then.
7/1 – If bookies didn’t know Denman hadn’t a chance of winning this years race why are they offering 7/1 about such a great horse? They’re not stupid they’re tempting people in.
I think that’s pretty obvious Ian but they wont exactly be taking fortunes on Kauto Star at the moment either. Much depends on what is said by PN next week pre race. No one will take a chance on Denman unless PN says he is back to his best which is unlikley. At the same time people don’t want to risk money on Kauto in case PN says at the last minute Denman looks fantastic and is jumping out his skin.
Pretty cautious bunch are punters at times.
I would have to agree on Denman last year. David in a sense is right as Denman had Kauto cooked a long way out and Sam could have held on to him a bit longet. He might have done so, had it not been the Gold Cup but the fact is Denman won, so saying he went too soon holds very little water where the result is concerned.
so who is going to win
– and no one is allowed to pick imperial commander as I have a soft spot for him 
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.