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SL,
The first half of your post tells us that we should only listen to the views of professionals.
The second half tells us that in your opinion, those same professionals are causing horses to fall because they aren’t riding correctly.
I’m confused.com
AP
This isn’t simply a knee jerk reaction, it’s been going on for some years. For many of us this is just the final straw.
As for the opinions of racing professionals only being of any worth, well I’m afraid this may not be the case any longer, as those of the viewing public, who may be a tad more sensitive than of old, will need to be considered more carefully.
Money talks in my opinion, and if enough people get together and make a stand, then things can happen. In my own small way I have cancelled my account with the sponsor, reduced my fees to the RUK channel via subscriptions as I do not want their racecourse vouchers, and have absolutely no intention of ever being a paying customer to Cheltenham.
I for one am happy to stand up and be counted, I feel very strongly about it, and this fence will be dealt with ultimately, even if over my dead body.
Margaret
EW
if the fence is such a "death trap" would someone care to explain to me why the falls are happening on the last circuit and not in earlier circuits? It’s because the main reason behind the falls is that the horses are not being balanced properly in the descent prior to the fence or being ridden properly into the fence in question at that time as they are challenging (I fully accept that this was not the case with Granit Jack however, that was a tragic accident) and being shaken up to get into the finish. It takes very little to steady or half halt the stride whilst going down the slope approaching the fence; indeed it can be done without halting forward movement if the momentum is harnessed correctly.
Come on people, lets have less of the knee jerk reactions, please?!
Because in a 2m 4 1/2f chase, as well as over 2 miles on the Old course, they only jump it once, after barrelling down the hill.
He talks about a kneejerk reaction to last weekend’s events
Perhaps Fat Al was just getting a bit confused. He’s maybe sobered up from a six year bender, thought it was a Monday in April 2001 and was apologizing for his knee jerk reaction to a race when no horses were actually hurt.
I [and others] are more likely to give weight to the arguments of those professionals directly involved rather than posters on an internet forum who have none of the experience or knowledge of said professionals.
Ah! The BBC argument for employing ex-sportsmen to cover their portfolio of sporting events. The authentic stink of the locker room at the expense of the dispassionate contextual insights of the brilliant amateur. A good job that John Arlott wasn’t planning to apply for commentary on Sunday League matches in 2007.
Mssr’s Henderson, McCoy and Hobbs have seen more equine deaths than you or I have had winning bets. This brings a certain amount of desensitisation into the equation. Maybe you need to be desensitised to be a professional in the jumping game.
I watched Granit Jack come down at the Lalatomne fence while at a football stadium with ten or eleven non-racegoers. I’ll leave to your imagination the impact the favourites’ death had on their future interest in National Hunt racing.
AP needs to be listened to – by the afore-mentioned professionals as well as the Cheltenham executive.
SL
post read and notedFitzy
It’s part and parcel of Cheltenham and has been like it for years,
god help NH racing , deserve everything they get with that kind of attitudeDone, finito, adios peeps
Lydia has written about this topic in todays’ Times.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/racing/ … 909720.ece
AP
It is excellent to read that some publicity has now been given to the suggestion by AP and I really hope that some action is taken to solve the problems caused by this fence which I have no doubt is a serious one.
It is spoiling the enjoyment that I and many other jump racing enthusiasts get from the racing at Cheltenham and I repeat that the reaction to last weekend’s events is not a knee-jerk one as this fence has been causing concern to many of the real jump racing fans for a few years.
One good point made by Lydia was the following – Many – not all – of the sport’s professionals have already closed ranks against an anticipated attack.
Whilst I have a lot of respect for the views of AP McCoy, Philip Hobbs and Nicky Henderson, I do think that they are not being impartial regarding this subject.
Let’s hope that Cheltenham now do something positive about this problem.
there’s a very interesting comment on Kim Baileys daily blog [he points out that he doesn’t usually get drawn into these sort of issues]…Kimbaileyracing.com. a very sound guy and one who definately puts the welfare of his horses first….I think this is quite a complex issue more so than just how dangerous the fence is and, as I’ve said before is also down to where people can run fairly inexperienced horses that have, however won race in France that excludes them from novice chases. hence the comments on knee jerk reactions [ie get rid of the fence]….I must point out in case anyone thinks that I’m opposed to the removal of this fence that I have felt quite miserable since Saturday and terribly sad for all connections of both horses and of course Ruby [thank goodness he’ll be ok].We’re all responsible for the welfare of both horses and jockeys and it’s good that this is not going to be allowed to be swept under the carpet. I don’t feel that I have enough knowledge myself to decide anything, all I can do is question those that do. Many thanks to people on this board who have done so. mo
I have been pleasantly surprised by the level of positivity towards Alan’s idea for Cheltenham. A few people raised it after Tristram Ricketts’ funeral yesterday and, at a meeting I attended in the evening, the trainers who were there all felt it was an interesting and viable proposal. I think it might get some serious consideration. At the very least, the idea is out there now. But, as Alan has already suggested to me, it probably won’t be revisited until the first day of the Festival because the Old Course isn’t used again until then.
I was also pleasantly surprised to find that the views quoted on page 3 of the Post on Monday – broadly that the fence has always been like that and that there was no real alternative (Paddy Brennan’s comments excepting) – do not reflect fairly the cross-section of views among professionals. Some agree that the fence is an unreasonable hazard that spoils races, from the point of view of welfare and competitiveness. Others do think that it represents a reasonable test, but there is at least a spectrum of opinion and it has sparked debate, anecdotally, among the professional ranks. Kim Bailey comes at it from a different angle, as mentioned on his website and (I think) cited above: that horses, particularly those arriving from mainland Europe, are not taught to jump on (or soon after) a downhill gradient and that many horses with insufficient jumping experience as a whole are asked to tackle such a difficult track.
All this has restored my (never really wavering) faith in debate!Thanks to Lydia for the update and it is excellent to hear that AP’s idea has recieved some positive response from people in the sport including the professionals. Even people who do not care about horses must realise that some exciting finishes have been ruined by the departure of horses at this fence.
I hope the safety concerns regarding this fence can stay in the limelight but I fear that it may not resurface until more falls occur at it during the March festival.
Some people have exaggerated the problems by calling this fence a death trap but the person who today wrote in the RP today and compared the removal of this fence with the banning of fox hunting, fishing and jump racing really does need to get some perspective….if this was not a serious subject then I would have laughed at his comments.
The one point nobody seems to have mentioned is the number of fallers at the second last on the old course over hurdles. I am sure that followers of Keen Leader, Granville Again and especially Land Afar may argue that it is not just the chase course that is difficult. And indeed many jockeys would argue that the fence at the top of the hill on the new course is the most difficult on either track (although this has recently been modified). I am afraid that the likelyhood of fallers on any track increases when they are asked to go faster than they are capable of. This I am sure increases at Cheltenham due to the ultra competetiveness of just about every race, where horses are asked to go faster than they have ever been before. It’s championship racing. Good debate though.
Seebald,
Entirely agree about the second last hurdle, but moving the chases would also remove one of the constraints on repositioning that hurdle. At present, they have to leave enough room for any obstacle (fence or hurdle) to be bypassed in the event of an injured horse or jockey.
If the downhill stretch of the Old Course only has to have hurdles, then there would be many more options for placing the second last across the width of the track and further up or down the hill. Whilst there’s no guarantee that would reduce the problem, it would at least enable different things to be tried.
One other thought offered to me by a very occasional racegoer and professor of statistics that I was talking to on the phone yesterday – he pointed out that if the other fences on the Old Course had the same percentage rate of fallers as the second last, the problem with the second last would be eliminated – no horse would ever get that far!
AP
Poor ol’ Land Afar!! He was going so well in two Champion Hurdle’s before tumbling (behind the great Alderbrook and that wonderful mare Flakey Dove if my memory serves me well).
I’m not so sure if both were at the second last. I think the third last accounted for one of his falls. Even when he went chasing, I don’t remember him falling too often – the ‘Cheltenham Effect’ once again.
You’re right Seebald, the second last hurdle has also been responsible for many a faller. Didn’t Valiramix also slip-up fatally somewhere around the second last?
Just to say briefly, like many others I hope your suggestions Alan are eventually acted upon, and thanks to Lydia for maintaining the momentum and highlighting peoples concerns, although being pessimistic I doubt if anything will come of it, but we must live in hope.
If nothing else, perhaps they can look again at the landing side and see if a little raising of the ground might be something worth undertaking, or some other amelioration.
post read and noted
god help NH racing , deserve everything they get with that kind of attitude
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