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I know where you are coming from and understand your concerns, but take a look at the recent Galway festival. It was over six days/nights, had something like 40-45 races, and contained a few weakish races – but the enjoyment wasn’t decreased in the slightest, and the races that weren’t perhaps strong on paper were at least competitive.
Precisely. There are far more modest contests over the course of both the Galway and Punchestown Festivals than Cheltenham, but you’d be hard pushed to find too many critics of that in either the trade press or fora such as this.
I’ve no truck at all with any notion of the diluting of quality of the Cheltenham Festival, remembering that it was still featuring divided novices’ hurdles and sellers into the 1950s and 1960s.
Of course, we don’t want to see Cheltenham introduce a maiden hurdle, an extra bumper race or a veteran hunter chase (despite Jeremy lobbying for a full day of them
),
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
The good thing is that this now means that the Cross Country race will now be on telly.
Yeah!!! Quite right, too!
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
The 1.30 start mucks up my usual schedule
And what about the many punters who simply take a half day off work to watch the event? Getting comfortably back home for 1.30 is not easy….
The quality of racing will never decrease Zippy.
When Cheltenham was just a three-day (20 race) festival, many horses were not getting a run because the maximum field size had been reached.
Mike,
Cheltenham festival is not about ensuring horses get a run. It should be reserved for horses rated high enough to participate in the festival, not to fulfill some owner’s dream.The quality of racing will never decrease Zippy.
When Cheltenham was just a three-day (20 race) festival, many horses were not getting a run because the maximum field size had been reached.
Switching to a four-day festival gives horses that would previously miss out an alternative option, and a race to run in. This extra race will give the many horses that don’t get into the Coral Cup a chance to run at the festival. I imagine it will be a full field handicap hurdle, 8/1 the field etc
I know where you are coming from and understand your concerns, but take a look at the recent Galway festival. It was over six days/nights, had something like 40-45 races, and contained a few weakish races – but the enjoyment wasn’t decreased in the slightest, and the races that weren’t perhaps strong on paper were at least competitive.
Of course, we don’t want to see Cheltenham introduce a maiden hurdle, an extra bumper race or a veteran hunter chase (despite Jeremy lobbying for a full day of them
), but I’m not too worried about an extra handicap hurdle or a few more handicap chases or something. There are plenty of quality horses crying out for a run around festival time to ensure such races would be competitive.Mike
Micky,
Your answer does not make any sense.
If the new race allows horses who would not get in the Coral Cup, to get a run. Then the QUALITY IS DECREASED, with a quality of horse not previously good enough now getting a run. There can be no arguement about that.
Most so called "Festivals" cater for horses of a lesser quality. You seem to think "quality" means "competitive", it does not. It may well be a competitive race with 81 the field, but the quality will not be there. The difference with the Festival has been TOP quality COMPETITIVE racing. If it is downgraded too much it runs the risk of becoming just another festival.
The recent changes, with the Fred Winter Juvenile and Festival Chase have been "successful" additions. But their success has taken some quality out of other races. The performances of the first two in the Fred Winter this year would have been good enough to be in the fight for the Triumph. A race which has certainly been downgraded to just another Grade 1 Juvenile Hurdle. Not the race it once was. You rarely get an outsider running well in it anymore because the unexposed horses run in the Handicap. Indeed, there have been cases where horses have run in the grade 1 because they can not get in to the handicap.
The Festival Chase does NOT cater for any horse that would not otherwise run at the Festival. Good race though it is, it takes horses from the Queen Mother, Gold Cup, and the 2 1/2 mile Handicap chase. The first two races mentioned are not as hard to win nowadays because there are horses that woud’ve started 16/1 or 25/1, now running in a different race. We could concievably see Denman and Kauto Star avoid each other next year. As in future top horses will do, particularly if (as it seems) the Festival Chase’s importance is on the up year after year.
The 2 1/2 mile handicap chase does not attract the quality of horse it once did because those at the top of the handicap (like Fondmort) now go for the Festival Chase.The Fred Winter and Festival Chases are excellant races and may be worth the downgrading of the Triumph, Queen Mum, Gold Cup and 2 1/2 mile handicap chase, but DOWNGRADED is what they have been.
Mark
Value Is Everythingit sounds good an extra race on the tv and as someone said you get to see the crosscountry if you dont have racing uk, i think the extra races will still be competitive the 1.30 start is a bit crap though
It seems most peeps are happy to have more races. Fair enough.
Personally I do not find the Fred winter a great race to watch, there are enough handicaps. And a "2nd" Coral Cup takes something away from the lustre of the original imho. As a handicap, it is (was) quite distinctive, as there are few top-class 2m 5/6F handicaps throughout the season.
I must look up this "Festival Chase"…
Zip
I’ve no truck at all with any notion of the diluting of quality of the Cheltenham Festival, remembering that it was still featuring divided novices’ hurdles and sellers into the 1950s and 1960s.
"MikkyMo73":11xjumle wrote:
Of course, we don’t want to see Cheltenham introduce a maiden hurdle, an extra bumper race or a veteran hunter chase (despite Jeremy lobbying for a full day of them ),gc
Well, I didn’t realise the novices’ and sellers were divided back then – sounds bloody awful!
Zip
Don’t remember the sellers but I do remember two divisions of the ‘Gloucester Hurdle’ book-ending the first day.
Colin
In reality a 1.30 start is ok but maybe 1.45 would have been better, dont forget that even in summer with some courses racing from 2.30pm Newbury still begin at 1.20 at some summer meets.
Big question is what will the race be called.
It was a selling hurdle that provided Lester Piggott with his only Festval winner.
The Fred Winter has been the most sensible addition, it means that the Triumph doesn’t end up with 30 fairly inexperienced runners crashing around. Some trainers were getting wary of running horses in it.
Mark,
Sorry for the late response, I was out yesterday.
I stand by my opinion that the Cheltenham Festival will not decrease in quality because of this additional race.
You were quite right to question what I said about the Coral Cup, however I was meaning the festival as a whole rather than just the racing. I still believe that an additional race, that will cater for horses that never made the Coral Cup, will add to the festival rather than detract from it. In fact, I believe it will add to the quality of racing rather than do the opposite.
Yes, if you take it quite literally, then the race will be weaker than the Coral Cup. But I still don’t see how a 20 runner competitive handicap for horses rated a few pounds lower than what run in the Coral Cup will mean the racing is actually decreasing in quality.
You will still have the other 25 or so races that won’t be affected by this new race. If any of those races were affected then yes, I would be dead against it. But the fact is that Cheltenham will now stage the 25 races that we have had previously, plus one extra competitive betting heat. I don’t see how this decreases the quality of racing as a whole.
Mike
I can’t see that it doesn’t devalue what a Cheltenham Winner means – a consolation race for half decent handicappers rated in the 120s and low 130s has little place at a Championship Meeting.
I do think a race for conditional jocks is not a bad idea – but it could have been achieved by changing the conditions of the Kim Muir (2 amateur races would be enough) or perhaps the Fred Winter.
Now I like nothing better than seeing horses come up the Prestbury Hill – the more the better – but I fail to see how anyone can argue that the Changes to the festival haven’t weakened what was almost a perfect meeting.
The Gold Cup field has clearly been thinned out by the Ryanair Chase and The Mildmay of Flete by both the Ryanair and the Jewson. The Sun Alliance Hurdle has been absolutely filleted by the 3m novice and the mares hurdle took away a couple of genuine stayers hurdle contenders. Ante-post betting on hurdles in particular has become a lottery.
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Of course it won’t dilute the quality?
Are the Olympics any worse for having synchronised swimmiing & diving, Greco-Roman wrestling, artistic and rhythmic gymnastics, 3 position shooting, dwarf-throwing, or any other egg and spoon race that gets someone a medal for something?
Did it ever dilute snooker, cricket, or darts to have their championships spread between the vaious factions?
For God’s sake it’s only sport after all; who gives a toss about finding out who’s the best?Yet another dross race to further weaken an already bloated Festival- I think you’ll find that more and more people will cease attending the whole thing now- I know I’m likely to only do 2 days this year. Adding races like this is a bit like the Fed printing more US dollars, eventually you undermine the currency, in this case of having a Festival winner.
If fewer people do stick it out for the whole four days, I’d proffer that there are going to rather more severe contributory factors at play than the adding of just one more race to the programme, CH – an ever-deepening recession, for starters.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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