- This topic has 33 replies, 13 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 4 months ago by
.
- Posts
So, where will his destination be? ? ?
Paul Nicholls did state, if i remember correctly, that he would have been aimed at the World Hurdle if he hadn’t have started chasing this season.
However, after stating that the horse will go back hurdling, this seems the obvious choice now, surely? ? ?
That will mean that the Stewart family will potentially have 2 horses being aimed at the World Hurdle. Surely one more effort from Big Bucks in the World Hurdle, before reverting back to chasing next season, and keeping plans for Celestial Halo over the smaller obsticles, in the staying division, for this year, and next? ? ?
^^ Not beaten far in the St Leger as a 3YO.
Could still be a useful tool in that sphere over staying distances.
Have to agree with you there Gaz although i would have
Big Bucks
jumping fences now! There"s no point in me burying my head in the sand regarding
Celestial Halo
as i have been a fan of his gritty determination over hurdles,after todays performance "gritty determination" would be the last 2 words i would use to describe him! When connections first stated he would go chasing i remember my gut reaction was,He"s not built for it and i have mentioned that a couple of times on here,i remember Corals offering me 16/1 back in the spring for the Arkle and me politely declining as i had severe doubts fences would suit…
Several hundred pounds of Ante-Post bets later i now realise what a D*ck i have been! Sometimes Loyalty can be an expensive charateristic,it certainly clouded my initial judgement here! TAPK has to put his hands up and admit he was wrong to back Celestial over fences and am glad i never had a penny on today,his fingers are burnt,his Ante-Post banker was killed yesterday,testing times for the King!
- Total Posts 17716
If I Was the owner of Celestial Halo i’d consider moving yards to give the horse a new lease of life, would be nice to see him trained by Donald McCain or David Pipe.
Will be a major surprise if he wins an Arkle or even the new festival 2m5f Novices Chase after his first two performances to date.
The Aintree Hurdle would be a better aim or maybe the staying hurdle at Punchestown so they dont meet up with BB who will no doubt take over from Denman and Kauto next season.
Back to hurdling for the celestial one, I would suggest. He is NOT a chaser.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
- Total Posts 17716
Imo it was always fanciful to see him as an Arkle horse, but I’d be disappointed if he didn’t persevere over fences. Today he ran and jumped quite well – one error apart – and though they were always going a stride too fast for him, he showed what an engine he has by finishing to some purpose. Proper staying trips should see him in much better light, and there’s no reason he wouldn’t get the RSA distance comfortably, else why consider him for the World Hurdle.
The only reason for the switch back, imo, is that Big Bucks (in the same ownership) is likely to revert to fences, but he didn’t pull many trees up on his previous attempts, and there’s little point in finishing up with 2 sows’ ears, if both are to be made from silk purses.- Total Posts 17716
What the future holds for Celestial Halo remains to be seen but talk of the World Hurdle is a nonsense.
He should have kicked that lot into touch yesterday and his defeat had very little to do with the fact he was jumping fences. As my learned friend says his jumping was a OK apart from one fence
I gave him another chance yesterday but the fact is since he finished 2nd in the 2009 Champion Hurdle he hasn’t been the same horse since. 7 losses 1 win tells the story.
You could say there was a glimmer of hope in the closing stages when he appeared to show a bit of toe after the last but against what? A horse rated about 30lbs below him over hurdles.
Fencing, hurdling won’t make an ounce of difference to him as the old engine seems to have gone. Should have left that lot for dead when Nicky’s fell but they left him for dead……….That’s not fences that’s just being slow.
- Total Posts 17716
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/10/11/30/RACING_World.html
As i said
Big Bucks and Celestial Halo enteredi n the Long Walk Hurdle.
I did say he would be going for the World Hurdle.
If he were mine I’d go back to the Champion Hurdle. I noted at least three errors from Celestial Halo on Saturday. Although only one looked a bad error, he reached for at least two others. Agree, he just wasn’t right there. It may be more experience might help, but I think he’s lost confidence. The "staying on" towards the finish was (imo) primarily to do with understandably given an easy time from the cross fence. Had Fehily thrown the kitchen sink at him from that point he might have threatened the winner.
Just because a horse is a stayer on the flat, does not make it so over obsticles. Does take a bit of a hold. Given an even strong gallop like when second to Punjabi, stands a chance of at least a place. Arguably went too fast early there. So if he is capable of going too fast at 2 miles, then Celestial Halo does have the pace for 2 miles.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 17716
If he were mine I’d go back to the Champion Hurdle. I noted at least three errors from Celestial Halo on Saturday. Although only one looked a bad error, he reached for at least two others. Agree, he just wasn’t right there. It may be more experience might help, but I think he’s lost confidence. The "staying on" towards the finish was (imo) primarily to do with understandably given an easy time from the cross fence. Had Fehily thrown the kitchen sink at him from that point he might have threatened the winner.
Just because a horse is a stayer on the flat, does not make it so over obsticles. Does take a bit of a hold. Given an even strong gallop like when second to Punjabi, stands a chance of at least a place. Arguably went too fast early there. So if he is capable of going too fast at 2 miles, then Celestial Halo does have the pace for 2 miles.
Ginger
Are we to add Paul Nicholls to the growing list of trainers that you know better than?
Stamina is stamina, and while some stayers are young enough, and have enough class, to perform well over shorter distances in their early NH forays, they will almost inevitably be raised in distance as they progress.
That Celestial Halo would struggle at the very top level over 2m became evident on only his 2nd start over hurdles, when outpointed (in a slowly run race) by the much inferior Sentry Duty, and it’s no coincidence that he was ridden much more aggresively to win his Triumph. Little surprise then, that he was ridden much the same in the following years CH, only to find Punlabi had a piece more class than Franchoek.
The whole of the horse’s career suggests he’s better given a trip – even his last race, where the"staying on" toward the finish
owed much more to physiology than it ever would to fitting your half-cocked theory.
- Total Posts 17716
Oh come on Ginge mate are you getting enough sleep?. Like the current owner talking about taking on Big Bucks you are really scraping the bottom of the barrel now.
Think about what you are saying. Celestial Halo was a very experienced horse going into Punjabi’s Champion Hurdle having had at least twice as many runs as Binocular. Plus Binocular should have and would have won but for a terrible decision by AP. One he blames himself for I should add.
The form was turned on it’s head a year later between avery much improved Binocular and Celestail Halo by a massive 12 lengths.
The chances of Celestial Halo beating Binocular in the Champion Hurdle again must be next to zero and Binocular himslef will be lucky if he holds on to his crown. Hurricxane Fly? Peddlar’s Cross? Dunguib? Khyber Kim? Menoraqh all look better propositions and he’d neeed to improve a stone on his best form to get placed. He’d be 300/1 just to turn up.
If that wasn’t the case mate he would never have seen a fence.
I can imagine him being yours and you got Ruby to ride him. He’d get off him in the unsaddling enclosure and murmer "bloody waste of time that was" and ignore you for the rest of the day
I do agree with you about him having speed but don’t forget he was racing against 2 hold up horses that day the best of which was in no hurry to pass him. That factor very often makes a horse look a tad faster than he actually is.
That Champion Hurdle 2nd fooled a lot of people into thinking he was better than he is IMO. The speed you talk of has come back to haunt him. He’s too slowfor a Champion Hurdle but fast enough to suggest he won’t get 3 miles in atop race.
Never easy to say what one should do without being close to the horse but someone mentioned running him on the flat. which makes me think Twice Over Henry Cecil.
I’d be tempted to run him on the all weather if I could find a race or two where he could bully some moderate opposition and enjoy himself………but I’d probably bring himm back over fences as Hen looks to have nowhere to go over hurdles.
When you really get down to it that was one very poor performance the other day and he’s just got to be better than that.
AW, find a very easy race for him over fences come back next year and win the Paddy Power off 10stone. That’s the plan.
But you tell PN I’m keeping out of it
- Total Posts 17716
If he were mine I’d go back to the Champion Hurdle. I noted at least three errors from Celestial Halo on Saturday. Although only one looked a bad error, he reached for at least two others. Agree, he just wasn’t right there. It may be more experience might help, but I think he’s lost confidence. The "staying on" towards the finish was (imo) primarily to do with understandably given an easy time from the cross fence. Had Fehily thrown the kitchen sink at him from that point he might have threatened the winner.
Just because a horse is a stayer on the flat, does not make it so over obsticles. Does take a bit of a hold. Given an even strong gallop like when second to Punjabi, stands a chance of at least a place. Arguably went too fast early there. So if he is capable of going too fast at 2 miles, then Celestial Halo does have the pace for 2 miles.
Ginger
Are we to add Paul Nicholls to the growing list of trainers that you know better than?
Stamina is stamina, and while some stayers are young enough, and have enough class, to perform well over shorter distances in their early NH forays, they will almost inevitably be raised in distance as they progress.
That Celestial Halo would struggle at the very top level over 2m became evident on only his 2nd start over hurdles, when outpointed (in a slowly run race) by the much inferior Sentry Duty, and it’s no coincidence that he was ridden much more aggresively to win his Triumph. Little surprise then, that he was ridden much the same in the following years CH, only to find Punlabi had a piece more class than Franchoek.
The whole of the horse’s career suggests he’s better given a trip – even his last race, where the"staying on" toward the finish
owed much more to physiology than it ever would to fitting your half-cocked theory.
I’ll betya 250 baht he doesn’t get 3 mmiles Reet????
I have no idea how much that is in real money but it would get you 2 packets of Bensons, a lighter and a can of coke here
- Total Posts 17716
Fist
You’re on, (Does that include the air fare?).
Several hundred pounds of Ante-Post bets later i now realise what a D*ck i have been! 
Sometimes Loyalty can be an expensive charateristic,it certainly clouded my initial judgement here! TAPK has to put his hands up and admit he was wrong to back Celestial over fences and am glad i never had a penny on today,his fingers are burnt,his Ante-Post banker was killed yesterday,testing times for the King!
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.