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Yes I like the Sherwood lot. Many Clouds is unexposed really the new kid on the block. Remember The West Awake. I got disillusioned with racing about 10 year back and only kept up Chester Haydock (NH) and just 1/2 days at Chelt + watching the Ascots etc on tv. Must be my age but there are too many arabic names of horses now which more or less all sound the same. Its their money so fair enough …the piper and all that. Also I think that as you get older you are biased towards your era,I remember the older fellas when I was a kid, they’d seen the Tudor Melodys, Bahrams and such. I thought I knew it all! So wrong
Mind you Frankel got me out of my box!! I took a lady friend to see it at York…..the lucky bugger I’ve been watching and paying and waiting all these years for the chosen one and she sees it first visit to a course!! I only went for that one race, paid..watched it …and left straight after..a happy man.
Bula11
Aye, I remember those well – top notchers right enough. I was there for Davy Lad’s Gold Cup and backed Lanzarote (was Lanzarote about 11/4 fav?)
I know a bit about Cloister (I worked at Aintree, and there was some stuff in the museum on Cloister) and used to lap up all the Golden Miller stories, though his owner, Dorothy Paget, was, as you know, more interesting than the horse. How many would have had the unique arrangement with their bookies to allow bets after the meeting was done? She used to stay up all night then sleep until 5 in the afternoon, get up, look at the racing pages and ring her bookie to bet on those she thought would have won.
What would today’s media make of an owner like that?
As to Frankel, he got me back into flat racing and I too had a rare outing to York to see him and also departed after the race.
There are many more recent horses and people deserving a race named after them. However, when races have a well known name associated with them – do sponsers get their money’s worth?
If “The Bula” had a sponor would people take any notice? Or would it always just be thought of as “The Bula” whoever sponsered?
If it were called “The International” would the sponser’s name catch the public’s mind/eye easier being called “The Sponser’s International”?
Wish it were not the case, but I take more notice of the sponser when the name of the race has nothing to do with racing.
Therefore, racing may be able to get more money from sponsers if not associated with a horse etc.
Value Is EverythingI thought you may have known a bit about Cloister….you know your stuff….a forgotten hero who haunts the Cheshire fields of the now defunct Tarporley!!
Just shows you about good horses how Frankel pulled us to in after losing interest.
I respect and understand gingers view…….thats what I had been told by the marketing people but ginger is falling into the mercenary greed trap. People dont go to Cheltenham for the sponsors…..they go for the horses ….well most. Without them you may as well go to the local dogtrack. With regard to… he looks at the sponsors name….well the other week I noticed a card and every race began with BetFred this and BetFred that…….totally meaningless……why didnt they just call it BetFred day and leave the titles to their identity and dignity.
I still have faith that D Kelly at StanJames will be brave or forceful enough to deliver.
The Champion hurdle trial later called The Bula in recognition of a local hero was always a levy board race I am pretty sure and didnt need a sponsor. Boylesports “stole the race” from a champion. Why didnt they take their silver and make their own race. Being an Irish firm I bet they wouldnt have dropped the name if it had been the Istabraq!!!
We cant have everything, I know racing needs money but we have two camps
The purists way or The Americanised way.
Whats your view on the Derby……another race now in tatters since moving it from its special day on a Wednesday….the shops were packed for that day from opening to close…..now it is lost somewhere on the Saturday card
Bula11
I’ll watch The Derby if I’m around, but wouldn’t go out of my way unless there was a special horse in it. I think it was a big mistake moving from a Wednesday.
I respect and understand gingers view…….thats what I had been told by the marketing people but ginger is falling into the mercenary greed trap.
Nope, you don’t “understand” Bula.
Value Is Everythingginger…sorry but was just being polite about the understand bit…I knew you didn’t really because you miss the whole point and your tone. THE RACE WAS “STOLEN ” FROM BULA. It was his race not the rapacious SPONSORS.
To quote you “Therefore, racing may be able to get more money from sponsers if not associated with a horse etc.”
There you go money, money money. Any fool knows the sport needs money but there is etiquette.
My argument is about DECENCY. Other courses made a better fist of protecting their heritage ie retaining The Pendil, The Desert Orchid, The Red Rum, The Lanzarote, The Denman, The National Spirit, The Persian War and many more. Some sponsors recognise the value in famous names and what they did for the sport.
I didn’t come on here to argue……just to point out an injustice……you appear to subscribe to the mercenary camp so its no problem, there are many more too like that. They are not important to me as they are not on the side of decency. As they say… if you dont like it leave it…. dont take any interest…fair enough? There is no point me wasting my time with people who aren’t giving support so lets leave it there, no need to reply.
BTW what have you done to defend the sports reputation, rhetorical.
Bula11
ginger…sorry but was just being polite about the understand bit…I knew you didn’t really because you miss the whole point and your tone. THE RACE WAS “STOLEN ” FROM BULA. It was his race not the rapacious SPONSORS.
To quote you “Therefore, racing may be able to get more money from sponsers if not associated with a horse etc.”
There you go money, money money. Any fool knows the sport needs money but there is etiquette.
My argument is about DECENCY. Other courses made a better fist of protecting their heritage ie retaining The Pendil, The Desert Orchid, The Red Rum, The Lanzarote, The Denman, The National Spirit, The Persian War and many more. Some sponsors recognise the value in famous names and what they did for the sport.
I didn’t come on here to argue……just to point out an injustice……you appear to subscribe to the mercenary camp so its no problem, there are many more too like that. They are not important to me as they are not on the side of decency. As they say… if you dont like it leave it…. dont take any interest…fair enough? There is no point me wasting my time with people who aren’t giving support so lets leave it there, no need to reply.
BTW what have you done to defend the sports reputation, rhetorical.
It’s not a matter of being “mercenary” it is about being realistic Bula. Whether you like it or not, horse racing needs money. If a race does not maintain its place in prize money (or up the prize money) then connections will find an alternative. The International/Bula is a Grade 2 race and yet is now worth more than any British Grade 1 hurdle other than the Champion Hurdle and invariably attracts Grade 1 horses.
In 2005 its last time as the “Bula” was worth £42,765.
In 2006, 2007 and 2008 its first three runnings known as the “International” worth £114,040, going up 167%. Were you in favour Bula?
In 2009 its last of four runnings sponsered by Boylesports it was worth £85,515, still twice as much as it was in 2005.
In 2010 Stan James maintained the level but reduced it to £74,035 in 2011, same as present day. Some £31.,270 more than the old “Bula” and still considerably more than Grade 1’s Fighting Fifth and Christmas Hurdle.International is just one part of Stan James’s trilogy of Champion Hurdle trials… Started sponsoring the Fighting Fifth at the same time in 2010. WBX had been the Newcastle sponser with one year of £56,330, but before that £45,110 was the most it had been. Stan James maintained the levels at £56,270 with 6 years of solid sponsership. Third part of this Stan James trilogy is Haydock Park’s Champion Trial. Its 4 runnings prior to them taking over had 4 different sponsors, nobody stayed. Prize money gone up from between the 25’s and 28,000s before, to now almost 43,000. Not to mention the Stan James Champion Hurdle itself, worth £238,051.
Fine Bula, if sponsors are not interested in maintaining good levels of prize money and/or not in it for the long haul – then xxx them; they are not worthy of changing race names. However, when sponsors put in that sort of money and/or willing to stay around… Must be very difficult (if not impossible) to put two fingers up for the sake of a name, albeit a great name that you and I want to remain. There’s nothing to stop us calling it the “Bula” anyway. I still call Cheltenham’s “World” Hurdle the “Stayers”.
Your intransigence runs the very high risk of alienating important sponsors Bula. This would no doubt be just one of many major sponsors turned away. You say “any fool knows the sport needs money”, those are just words. Explain how are you going to replace prize money of lost “rapacious” sponsors.
Value Is Everything
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