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From <i>The Spectator</i> Coffee House blog by fraser Nelson…
Up to now, MEPs can use Westminster’s facilities; but, yesterday, Nick Brown tabled a deplorable motion in the House of Commons – to ban Nick Griffin from parliament. Just in case there were any doubt, Andrew Dismore spelled it out, saying Brown’s motion would “mean that the newly elected British National Party members would not be allowed to get into this place. Most Members are of the view that that should be the case.”
Whatever one thinks of the BNP, it can’t be right for Westminster/New Labour to single out a party that got over 1 million votes in a democratic election and discriminate against them. Methinks New Labour is playing right into the hands of the BNP who can, perhaps with more legiticimacy than the mainstream political parties, claim to speak for a large section the English working class. A class who feel disenfranchised.
Who speaks for those who oppose uncontrolled immigration, EU membership, who fear the “islamisation” of their neighbourhoods, unemployment and urban violence?
It certainly isn’t Labour, Conservatives or LibDems is it?(PS I ought to add that Fraser Nelson quoted above, is NOT a BNP supporter or sympathiser, as the rest of his blog goes on to make clear. I just didn’t think it worth copying the whole article.)
Imposing a ban like this will only play into the hands of the BNP – nothing like a persecution complex to play on.
Obnoxious as their policies may well be to any decent thinking person they have attracted almost a million votes.
The way to fight them is openly and fairly – countering their arguments and policies. Imposing bans sounds like panic measures.
More importantly the mainstream politicians need to look at why people are turning to teh BNP and their ilk.
That is why I am pleased they are going to be on question time – it will give a chance to openly debate what they really believe and hopefully expose them as what they are.
Stifling extreme political doctrine by banning it, or attempting to do so, serves no purpose, is counter-productive and is undemocratic.Rational debate, rational debate and more rational debate on a public stage between those of all political persuasions is the only way that extremists will be exposed for what they are: hateful, divisive and dangerous.
So I applaud the BBC’s decision to grant Griffin his democratic right. No doubt he’ll have cheer-leading stooges cunningly placed in the audience and no doubt he’ll have told his troops to send supportive e-mails en-masse. No one would be surprised by that
But this programme won’t be about, or a test of Griffin; it’ll be about, and a test of his fellow panel members to quietly, carefully and convincingly destroy his words with theirs.
you don’t win wars by talking with your friends
It will be interesting to see if, in Question Time, Griffin is asked to comment on tonight’s Panorama program and to see if he condemns, unreservedly, what is uncovers – or will he attempt to “justify” the sickening behaviour shown.
Indeed, Paul, though if the questions on
Question Time
aren’t preordained, as Mr Dimbleby continuously insists they are not, then it behoves the audience as much as the panel to compel him to respond to that and other damning material.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Does anyone know who else will be on the panel? Haven’t watched Question Time recently, but this one is un missable!
From the BBC website;
"David Dimbleby will be joined in London this week by Jack Straw, Baroness Warsi, Chris Huhne, Nick Griffin and Bonnie Greer".
A multicultural and liberal panel, sullied only by the presence of a superannuated, discredited figure of hate.
And Nick Griffin.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
With all his mouthing off in the media this morning it seems a pity Peter Hain isn’t the Labour rep on the panel ….. that would make for a very interesting confrontation.
Haven’t watched Question Time recently, but this one is un missable!
Same here . . . . I just hope they are allowed to debate and it isn’t ruined by heckling, from any sets of "supporters" from either side.
I just have a horrible feeling the debate could be spoiled.
Peter Vain has been mouthing off a bit too much. Why isnt Brown controlling him? It is obvious that if they ban the BNP’s exposure voters are going to conclude that the goverment is frightened by what they have to say. and who wins from that?
Even worse is Ken Livingstone banging on about banning the "nazis". But we well remember him inviting to london and strongly promoting a certain Iman whos views on Hitler are as follows
http://www.hurryupharry.org/2009/02/03/ … nd-hitler/
Those expressed views (calling for a new holocaust) go way beyond anything Grfiin has stated in public
And as for extremism on question time, we have had plenty of Tony "mao was the greatest 20th century world leader" (yes…really) Benn, anti semitic Ken livingstone and (if i recall rightly) the islamic terrorism supporting (who gloated after 9/11)_ Seamus milne
I despise the BNP and its policies but its extreme arrogance for any party to suggest that we cannot make up our own minds about their vile views
The selection of panelists is poor too. If it is aimed to grab the attention of potential BNP voters then im not at all sure the somewhat tired and uncharismatic Straw would be the man. Hes too familiar. Baroness warsi is a shocking choice. History of dubious campaigning, never been elected and unfairly or not, is going to be seen as a beneficiary of tokenism. Sadly but truthfully, the wavering memebers of the public are going to consider a lot of her responses to be along the line of "well you would say that wouldnt you?"
But its going to be unmissable TV…
The BNP are a political party in this country and those in charge are going to have to get used to it. Whatever anyone’s opinions of their views are .. banning MEPs from the HOC because they belong to a particular political party is as ridiculous as not having a proper political debate.
To my mind, it is the unaccountable mainstream political parties that have helped the BNP to pick up more votes, it’s certainly not down to anything the BNP has done or said, because they aren’t allowed to say anything.
I don’t think there will be much of a debate on Question Time because there will be dramatics from both camps.
It’s quite clear to me that if you disagree with the current immigration policies and EU federalism, you can only really vote for UKIP or the BNP. Not much of a choice if your a sort of middle of the road leftie is it?
I will be watching but I don’t expect much.
"David Dimbleby will be joined in London this week by Jack Straw, Baroness Warsi, Chris Huhne, Nick Griffin and Bonnie Greer".
Never heard of Bonnie Greer, though having checked her out on Wikipedia it appears she’s not Germaine’s daughter which was my first thought
I remember her from being a regular contributer to Newsnight Review a while ago, although have to admit to not recognising her name till I looked it up. She is so eloquent and dignified..this programme is going to be fascinating.
To my mind, it is the unaccountable mainstream political parties that have helped the BNP to pick up more votes, it’s certainly not down to anything the BNP has done or said, because they aren’t allowed to say anything.
I’m not sure I follow. How does being permitted to broadcast Party Political Broadcasts over the last couple of years, no shortage of press coverage for outbursts such as today’s decrying of Sir Mike Jackson et al as "nazis", the regular ear of shows such as Five Live Breakfast, etc. etc. constitute not being allowed to say anything?
I don’t think there will be much of a debate on Question Time because there will be dramatics from both camps.
On that point I wouldn’t disagree at all. A panel of robust, heavyweight, imperturbable orators to a man / woman may have made more appeal on paper, though I am prepared to be surprised by what may ensue.
It’s quite clear to me that if you disagree with the current immigration policies and EU federalism, you can only really vote for UKIP or the BNP. Not much of a choice if your a sort of middle of the road leftie is it?
I suppose that comes down to how prepared the voter is to side with a party whose policies chime with one’s own most of the time rather than all of the time, and there’s a case to say many of the electorate have become rather more prescriptive, expectant, even selfish, in that regard than generations previously.
Is that a good thing? Not necessarily – not if it means single-issue parties are turned to in lieu, but the likely appeal of them to some is undeniable.
I’m guessing the Liberals’ stance on Europe is too irreconcilable a difference for you to be able to throw your lot in with them. Your choice, of course, in the same way that it’s been mine to stick with them even though their pursuit of the likes of wider disarmament, taxation of high earners, etc. has fallen short of what I thought seemed likely back in the mists of time.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Jeremy .. if the all of the main parties act in a manner that is undemocratic such as throwing their lot in with the EU without consulting the electorate, they can hardly start complaining when people start voting for an undemocratic political party. We invaded Iraq and offered the people there democracy and then deny our own people a say in how their own country is run.
I’ve said it on here loads of times, if our government turns it’s back on democracy then this will make the country politically unstable and the minority parties will be here to stay. In every country in the world that doesn’t have what’s seen to be a transparent and fair democratic system they are plagued with extremist parties of all persuasions.
From the last EU elections ..
UK Independence Party 2,498,226
British National Party 943,598
English Democrats 279,801
No2EU – Yes to Democracy 153,2363,874,861 or 25% are what I would call extremist voters, these voters voted on a mandate which is not in any of the main parties manifestos or anything. Is it right that 1 in 4 of people that come out to vote don’t have a Major Party which represents their views?
The point I was making about the main political parties bolstering the BNP vote was the massive drop in their own vote at the last EU election that let the BNP in. In the Humber region which was a postal ballot last time around the Labour vote was down -7.5% and the BNP was up only 1.8%! So quite clearly the stay at home Labour voters gave the BNP the seat rather than a swing from Labour to BNP.
As far as the Liberals are concerned, I have voted Liberal in the past but I can’t see how their policies on Europe can lead to anything but divisive political extremism and political instability within our own country. I haven’t heard any positive argument for European Integration that is actually based on any sort of facts, nobody understands why they are for it, I certainly don’t.
As a irishman i find the Question time program superb on BBC1 every thursday night or should i say i sky+ it and watch it at the weekend as Thursday is UNI night out.
Nevermind that but Nick Griffen wasnt given a fair debate as he was attacked by 3 political parties all at once.
Sure the man is dodgy…i dont understand many of his view and consider my self a liberal but i almost felt sorry that people from the labour goverment who have killed 100s of thousands of Iraq’s and Afgan people are lecturing him on Islam.
I think the BNP will grow only further after that…and the other 3 parties are completly clueless in there answers tonight.
I suspect if that show was held in Bradford or up north it would have been a very different crowd than was there tonight.
Even saying that you i could never stand by his views but the people there tonight could and the text messaging during the problem on p155 showed a much fairer relflection of the views that the other parties would like to believe
I suspect if that show was held in Bradford or up north it would have been a very different crowd than was there tonight.
I largely agree with the sentiments of your post, the show did strike me as a bit of a witchhunt-cum-pantomime in the end, with the point-scoring of the other panelists brought down a significant notch once they realised the level of put-down they were getting away with among the audience (Bonnie Greer managed to lower affairs to sandbox level with particular panache in my recollection). A shame, as I was rather enjoying the early sparring. I say sparring, it was in effect Griffin getting his a*se served to him on a platter.
However, I think the above paragraph is perhaps a bit naïve. The BBC would have had the strictest control on tonight’s audience regardless of venue, and ultimately the outcome would have been the same. Sadly, all a bit inevitable in hindsight.
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