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Was thinking of the WH Chase or in the interests of blind faith….
Cloudy Lane has stats against him in the National – beaten horses have a very poor record.
Grasshopper, you seem to know all the weights and results months in advance
As Harry Findlay said last year he wanted to run Denman in the National I’m sure you would have considered him a "live" contender. No one can take account of people changing their mind or a horse suffering a setback. It’s a further incentive to Gold Cup 1st and 2nd to run in the National which can’t be a bad thing when they will be favourably treated by the handicapper.
Maybe a horse will show big improvement in the Gold Cup like Rough Quest, who knows?
The only publicity I’ve seen for the Betfair Million in recent times is this thread.Irish Stamp, 3 out of the last 5 winners have run in the National before, prior to winning at prices up to 33/1.
Hello,
Please consider the mugs like me who acquired tickets in advance for the Betfarce Chase.
In no way do I attach any blame to the sponsors as they will no doubt ditch this promotion because the sport won’t embrace the concept by keeping their bloody horses’ in their warm stables!!
The line up on Saturday, with all due respect to the declared, is abysmal…with such good prize money available, why aren’t trainers/owners grabbing a piece of the action??
As for the punter, there isn’t even going to be 8 runners for an each way bet!!
If this isn’t a prime example of how the Racing industry is sleep walking into oblivion, I don’t know what is!!
An organisation has put up the cash, what do owners/trainers do? Ignore the opportunity..
What will punters do? (outside the punters like me who foolishly purchased tickets in advance,never again!)..stay at home and watch Ascot and Haydock on telly…I am absolutely livid, and have finally given up the notion there is any professionalism or combined thinking within racing today..
regards,
doyley
Grasshopper, you seem to know all the weights and results months in advance
As Harry Findlay said last year he wanted to run Denman in the National I’m sure you would have considered him a "live" contender. No one can take account of people changing their mind or a horse suffering a setback. It’s a further incentive to Gold Cup 1st and 2nd to run in the National which can’t be a bad thing when they will be favourably treated by the handicapper.
Maybe a horse will show big improvement in the Gold Cup like Rough Quest, who knows?
The only publicity I’ve seen for the Betfair Million in recent times is this thread.Irish Stamp, 3 out of the last 5 winners have run in the National before, prior to winning at prices up to 33/1.
3 out of 5 doesn’t meant the stat is wrong. It should to make it more accurate "previous finishers have a poor record in the National" .
You are right though Silver Birch, Hedgehunter and Amberleigh had all run in the race before.
Prior to that though:
Monty’s Pass – National debutant, 2nd in Topham
Bindaree – National debutant, 4th in Topham
Red Marauder – Fell in National
Papillon – National debutant, no course form
Bobbyjo – National debutant, no course form
Earth Summit – National debutant, no course form
Lord Gyllene – National debutant, no course form
Rough Quest – National debutant, no course form
Miinnehoma – National debutant, no course form
Esha Ness (well he got round and crossed the line first) – National debutant, no course form
Party Politics – National debutant, no course formAdmitedly the course form thing doesn’t really stand up so well but realistically there’s only 3 races per year to run in (bar the National) and they can only run in 2 of them.
The line up on Saturday, with all due respect to the declared, is abysmal…with such good prize money available, why aren’t trainers/owners grabbing a piece of the action??
As for the punter, there isn’t even going to be 8 runners for an each way bet!!
If this isn’t a prime example of how the Racing industry is sleep walking into oblivion, I don’t know what is!!
An organisation has put up the cash, what do owners/trainers do?I am absolutely livid, and have finally given up the notion there is any professionalism or combined thinking within racing today..
Owners and trainers don’t care about prize money these days – they want a good jolly up for 10k at Wincanton or Plumpton.
HUGE prize money at Haydock today and the French authorities put up £2m over two days the other weekend – they got ZERO British and Irish runners.
Don’t expect trainers to run in the best races unless there’s a "plot" on – the Hennessy, Paddy Power etc. which are handicaps are all worth more than Grade 2 novice races.
Get the prize money for the Grade 1’s and 2’s up to 90k+ and the handicaps back down where they belong – in the handicap grade. No excuse for a Grade 3 being worth more than a Grade 2 (bar perhaps the National).
I know what you mean Doyley but I fully expect there to be a big crowd still to see the mighty Kauto as he has a big following. I just worry about the cold snap that is forecast to sweep in at the weekend
I’d rather see him canter round and win by 20L to set the season up than win money on the race!
Why is War of Attrition dodging the race anyway? Two easy wins so they could easily have stepped him up here to see if he retains his ability but using the ground as an excuse is laughable as it’s perfect at the moment.
Surely the fact we are still talking about the "bonus" and the publicity it creates for Betfair means they have succeed in what they aimed to do. And the race itself is still an important grade 1 race which is worth winning. The only problem with it is that there aren’t enough top class staying chasers in England and Ireland and as we have already seen with JNW Chase and even the Charlie Hall, they just can’t attract the kind of fields you would have seen 5 or 6 years ago. Add to that a horse like Kauto Star scaring off the field and that novice chasers now get such low ratings that even the top ones are tempted to go for handicaps like the Hennessy and even Satursday’s race which was won by grade 1 winning novice Joe Lively which offer big pots and your horse should still be able to take at least one other one before they are handicapped out of them completely.
The line up on Saturday, with all due respect to the declared, is abysmal…with such good prize money available, why aren’t trainers/owners grabbing a piece of the action??
As for the punter, there isn’t even going to be 8 runners for an each way bet!!
If this isn’t a prime example of how the Racing industry is sleep walking into oblivion, I don’t know what is!!
An organisation has put up the cash, what do owners/trainers do?I am absolutely livid, and have finally given up the notion there is any professionalism or combined thinking within racing today..
Owners and trainers don’t care about prize money these days – they want a good jolly up for 10k at Wincanton or Plumpton.
HUGE prize money at Haydock today and the French authorities put up £2m over two days the other weekend – they got ZERO British and Irish runners.
Quite so.
Looking at Auteuil’s relatively ordinary card for the meeting two days ago, their Grade 1 4-y-o hurdle had a prize fund of £190k – no British raiders. Even the two claimers on the card were worth £16k apiece.
I think the reluctance, shall we say, of the Jumping fraternity to branch out to France says a lot about the type of characters within it, especially when compared to the flat.
The line up on Saturday, with all due respect to the declared, is abysmal…with such good prize money available, why aren’t trainers/owners grabbing a piece of the action??
As for the punter, there isn’t even going to be 8 runners for an each way bet!!
If this isn’t a prime example of how the Racing industry is sleep walking into oblivion, I don’t know what is!!
An organisation has put up the cash, what do owners/trainers do?I am absolutely livid, and have finally given up the notion there is any professionalism or combined thinking within racing today..
Owners and trainers don’t care about prize money these days – they want a good jolly up for 10k at Wincanton or Plumpton.
HUGE prize money at Haydock today and the French authorities put up £2m over two days the other weekend – they got ZERO British and Irish runners.
Quite so.
Looking at Auteuil’s relatively ordinary card for the meeting two days ago, their Grade 1 4-y-o hurdle had a prize fund of £190k – no British raiders. Even the two claimers on the card were worth £16k apiece.
Top days racing too Ven – already booked the hotel for the Grande Steeplechase De Paris in May.
Tommorow Nicholls had Chapoturgeon (French bred) and Free World (ex-French) entered in a Class 3 4yo Chase. Last week Oculi beat Loulia for 150k in a Grade 1, the day before Miserable sprung a shock beating Reggiseur in a Graded 3yo Chase. There was also a Graded 3yo fillies hurdle and a Grade 1 3yo colts/geldings hurdle amongst others.
Also three jockeys represented from this side of the channel over the 2 days – Jason McKeown, David Dunsdon and Sam Waley-Cohen (well he was meant to be).
Very closed minded group of trainers we have in the UK at the moment. Only really Willie Mullins (Hurricane Fly, Glencove Marina, J’y Vole etc) willing to travel horses for the big meetings which is in great contrast to the BC Chase of the early 90’s when there were regular European entries, including 3 of the first 6 winners of the event which was discontinued this year
I read an article today where Clive Smith said he THINKs he may have been wrong to send Kauto Star to Aintree……..Thinking is something he has a lot to learn about……..it was pure greed and nothing else..no one in there right mind would send a good horse like him for such a race after Chelteham…..A frien who was at the winners enclosure told me Kauto’s Head was all but on the ground after the Gold Cup and he looked absolutely dead on his feet………At Aintree he made the type of mistake hthrough tiredness IMO that can severley injure a horse or even end up them being destroyed.
I reaslise they are there to be run but there is a limit abd it is knowing when enough is enough and acting on it that makes good trainers and owners.
People can say whay they like about PN but or me he was 100% wrong and deserves critisim for it
I read an article today where Clive Smith said he THINKs he may have been wrong to send Kauto Star to Aintree……..Thinking is something he has a lot to learn about……..it was pure greed and nothing else..no one in there right mind would send a good horse like him for such a race after Chelteham…..A frien who was at the winners enclosure told me Kauto’s Head was all but on the ground after the Gold Cup and he looked absolutely dead on his feet………At Aintree he made the type of mistake hthrough tiredness IMO that can severley injure a horse or even end up them being destroyed.
I reaslise they are there to be run but there is a limit abd it is knowing when enough is enough and acting on it that makes good trainers and owners.
People can say whay they like about PN but or me he was 100% wrong and deserves critisim for it
You clearly know absolutely nothing about Clive Smith. I also note the complete absence of criticism of Kauto Star’s connections from any quarter before the Aintree race.
The tactics used in that race also was something that made me think why would you do that to him after such a hard season, Race as you normally do and Kauto would have won on the bridal,P nicholls was ment to have upset Ruby alot with that decision and i was surprised his racing knowledge didn’t take over half way in to the race and to have just waited to the last two fences to say go.
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It’s exactly the same scenario, if not perhaps the same motivation, which saw Azertyuiop run at Sandown having returned from the Champion Chase a dejected wreck (not that he went into the Festival in any better condition in my view).
There’s only one common denominator, and it’s not Clive Smith.
I read an article today where Clive Smith said he THINKs he may have been wrong to send Kauto Star to Aintree……..Thinking is something he has a lot to learn about……..it was pure greed and nothing else..no one in there right mind would send a good horse like him for such a race after Chelteham…..A frien who was at the winners enclosure told me Kauto’s Head was all but on the ground after the Gold Cup and he looked absolutely dead on his feet………At Aintree he made the type of mistake through tiredness IMO that can severley injure a horse or even end up them being destroyed.
I reaslise they are there to be run but there is a limit abd it is knowing when enough is enough and acting on it that makes good trainers and owners.
People can say whay they like about PN but or me he was 100% wrong and deserves critisim for it
You clearly know absolutely nothing about Clive Smith. I also note the complete absence of criticism of Kauto Star’s connections from any quarter before the Aintree race.
Oh so you spoke to who Rory? Is Clive Smith your brother pray tell?…if this wasn’t a forum I would say more but trust me there was a barage of abuse behind the scenes…………..and if you care to look back various forums including this one lots of people said how wrong they were before the race.
You’re a bit deluded about how connected you are to the modern sport Fist, aren’t you? I’m not the one making utterly unsubstantiated comments about people I don’t know here ~ you are. I will give you some credit though as you did express misgivings about him running in the Betfair Bowl (that thread was fun to re-read!). That doesn’t alter the fact that your comments about Clive Smith are grossly insulting to the man.
Geezus 30 years in the game and I’m deluded
You and i must have a chat sometime mate…………..I honestly don’t like or dislike the man but I do care about the horse…he was wrong and he knows it and has more or less said so…if it was not for the Million there is no way on earth they would have run him after what he went through at Chelters…would you have?….that was the deciding factor and if you believe anything else you are very naive……..maybe they convinced themselves in their own minds it wasn’t but for many it was a case of money is the route of all evil…and they gave into it.
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