July 24, 2006 at 20:05 #2788empty walletMember
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If making the most of what you’ve got is deemed as trainer rating then Hughie Morrison.<br> Vastly underrated as a trainer, who deserves some patronage from the big owners/Studs imo
(Edited by empty wallet at 9:07 pm on July 24, 2006)July 24, 2006 at 20:08 #73932guskennedyMember
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Dickinson, for me.July 24, 2006 at 20:10 #73933Gareth FlynnParticipant
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Andre Fabre – he’s been French champion for most of those 25 years, won the Arc six times and remains the only European trainer to win the Breeders Cup Classic.
(Edited by Gareth Flynn at 9:10 pm on July 24, 2006)July 24, 2006 at 20:14 #73934Maxilon 5Member
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Henry Cecil for me.July 24, 2006 at 20:18 #73935davidjohnsonMember
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Give the likes of Kevin Ryan and Richard Fahey the kind of patronage that the likes of Ed Dunlop have enjoyed for the last 5 years and they’d be dam as near it champion trainer.July 24, 2006 at 20:21 #73936DroneParticipant
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MC Pipe – raised the standard of training NH horses to a new level. His influence on current training regimes alone qualifies him as the ‘best’
On the Flat HRA Cecil in his pomp, particularly with fillies.
Give it another 25 years and Evan Williams will have risen to the top of the pile :)July 24, 2006 at 20:28 #73937noreMember
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Quote: from empty wallet on 9:05 pm on July 24, 2006[br]If making the most of what you’ve got is deemed as trainer rating then Hughie Morrison.<br> Vastly underrated as a trainer, who deserves some patronage from the big owners/Studs imo<br>
<br>ew,<br>hughie morrison is far from the most underrated trainer (especially on this forum)
whenever the question of underrated trainers comes up his is always the first name mentioned!
<br>July 24, 2006 at 20:51 #73938LingfieldMember
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Andre Fabre and Henry Cecil. <br>The latter (10 times Champion trainer and 23 English classics) is also a charming man to racegoers and it was good to see him in good form and have a winner and promising second at HQ on Saturday.<br>Of the underrated I concur with Hughie Morrison and wonder what Gary Moore could do with better material down at Brighton!
(Edited by Lingfield at 9:56 pm on July 24, 2006)July 24, 2006 at 22:03 #73939apracingParticipant
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<br>Very surprised that the name of David Elsworth hasn’t already been suggested.
How many others in that 25 year period have produced winners from 2-y-o fillies at Royal Ascot to the Gold Cup and the Grand National?
Of course his record lacks any of the Classics, but he’s never had the owners who have dominated that arena – mainly due to his hearty distaste for the people that fill the role of ‘racing manager’. He did train the Goldolphin 2000 Gns winner, Island Sands, as a 2-y-old, but that was as close as he’s come so far.
But his handling of stars such as Desert Orchid, Rhyme N Reason, Barnbrook Again and Combs Ditch over obstacles and Heighlin, In The Groove, Indian Ridge, Dead Certain and Persian Punch mark him out as one of the very best – and most of those horses had careers that spanned more than just one great season.
Of course I’m biased – he trained my first winner as well!
APJuly 24, 2006 at 22:47 #73940FlatSeasonLoverMember
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Jumps – M Pipe -> found improvement of horses that didn’t seem to be there.
Flat – A Fabre although I think K Ryan is on the up and could have an absolute shed load of winners next year. He seems to know exactly where he stands with his horses particulary his 2yos.July 24, 2006 at 23:24 #73941PurwellParticipant
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Cecil for me.July 25, 2006 at 00:12 #73942SirHarryLewisParticipant
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Dermot Weld I think deserves a big mention…
Has won a lot of big races but particularly for winning two Melbourne cups. He also won the belmont with a horse that frankly was group 2 at best in Ireland. It isnt all about numbers you know.
SHLJuly 25, 2006 at 05:58 #73943SeagullMember
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Sir M. Stoute should be near the top in anyones list. <br>From the jumps trainer Paul Nicholls has done well since starting out with 12 horses.<br>I think the Horses in Training book is always a good guide regarding trainers having an increase or decrease in numbers of horses as it does not take long before owners move horses to yards that are doing well.<br>I agree that David Elsworth deserves a mention and I like him a lot as his trends are predictable and very profitable but he’s not in the same league as Sir Michael Stoute.July 25, 2006 at 08:46 #73944clivexMember
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For the period when he was dominant it has to be Cecil. I also think his attitude to the public along with Steve C did a lot to attract people to the game.
But Stoute has been the most consistent (when is the stable ever out of form?)and his ability to keep horses at the top their game is second to none
next 25 years?
Jeremy NosedaJuly 25, 2006 at 09:38 #73945SmithyMember
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Martin Pipe was a genius.
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