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Thanks TTC.
And on the subject of the Yellow Sam coup that made Curley’s reputation, what exactly did he do that was not acceptable?
Yellow Sam had run at a few of the bigger tracks in Ireland over distances too short for him and on ground that was too soft.
He was given a break and started to train better. Liam Brennan told Curley the horse’s work had improved. They also knew he needed a step up in distance and better ground.
Curley found a weak race and took advantage of the horse being well handicapped on suitable ground. So what? How is that different to anything lots of other trainers have done? How often did Sir Mark Prescott run stoutly bred horses over short distances?
I suppose the only underhand thing Curley did was to hire someone to occupy the phone box at Bellewstown to stop the off course firms from contracting the price – but why not take advantage of an unusual set of circumstances?
“I have always suspected that those who make heroes out of people like Curley can’t actually read a form-book, and rather like the idea of racing being some sort of Runyonesque wall-to-wall den of iniquity, where zero graft in terms of form study is required and you just wait to get a tip.
They probably hate Group 1 races because they are full of triers!”
Yeah right, everyone’s an idiot to you.
Going through the formbook and finding a horse that has returned to his last winning mark does not mean you have “spotted a plot” either.
Also, repeatedly throwing the word “Runyonesque” around doesn’t make you look half as clever as you think it does, it makes you look like someone who has learned a new word and can’t wait to use it.
No sour grapes from me – don’t think I ever had a bet in any of the infamous races he was involved in.
But never mind the every day mark manipulation, just imagine if literally everyone in racing operated like Curley did – and to such a blatant degree – what kind of a sport would it be?
As for “Runyonesque” I first read his books many years ago – entertaining, witty and perceptive about human nature, IMO.
I particularly liked what Runyon referred to as an “Underworld Complex” as it’s a characteristic I have seen on legion occasions in racing over the years.
“Runyon On Broadway” is a good starting point for anyone wanting to give his books a whirl.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Maybe I should have written “most of those” instead?
It’s a useful Get Out Of Jail card caveat in awkward situations.
Anyway, you clearly have robust debating skills and I think you might just enjoy a bit of Runyon!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Curleys impressive efforts in Afrika are irrelevant, as they were well published, to promote awareness.
Terrific stuff from your average arses on sofa merchants.
BUY THE SUN
Bear in mind, TTC, that “your average arses on sofas merchants” are perfectly willing to hand out praise where they feel it is warranted.
There are numerous people in racing (Joe Mercer is a recent example) I have written favourably about in the past and no doubt will again in the future.
Curley isn’t one of them, that’s all.
Alive or dead, it’s a game of opinions.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Ian I’m struggling to understand your arguement , everyday owners and trainers run horses at the wrong distance , wrong ground , not trying etc merely to reduce a hcap mark so they can take advantage when and where they want to , gambling is more than reading a form book
Wrong distance, wrong ground etc is in the form book.
There is nothing “wrong” with that, HDLG…
ie The horse’s record, breeding and temperament are in the form book.I / authorities have no problem with connections running under conditions that don’t suit, as long as connections allow the horse to do what it can under those prevailing conditions.
Value Is Everything“Fair enough Ian, agree to disagree.“
Love this ^ – absolutely, sir.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"If you are looking at folk ruining the integrity of racing, look at the Coolmore battalions / peleton in the Derby, and other once-famous races.
How?
Value Is EverythingBecause they run plenty of spoilers GT. They run a peleton. 1/2 hares, 1/2 midfielders, 1/2 held up. Look at last seasons shambles. Are you blind?
Oppenheimer isn’t, neither is Mark Prescott.
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TTC,
As I am sure you know, John Leng refers to this regularly.
But while I get where John is coming from I think making sure they get hold of at the Sales or retain by home breeding anything decent by Galileo etc is why they dominate.
Sea Bird would have laughed at their peleton – they could have had an army of horses and he would still have annihilated the lot of them.
No ones got anything seriously decent to take them on with – that’s why they keep winning.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Do you think Serpentine was the best horse in the race last year? Or did the Ballydoyle peleton make a joke of the race?
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Loads of holier-than-thou bollocks being spouted on here. Everyone loved to read and hear about a Curley plot, anyone who says otherwise is full of shizen.
I’ve got many books about betting which include legitimate betting coups. Have a great deal of respect and admiration for the authors (and others) able to stake / win more than me. Indeed, hope and believe I’ve learnt from them. Including a member of this forum.
But Barney’s books have never appealed, I guess am proud to be “full of shizen”.
Value Is Everything
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