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Ascot – Soft to Heavy my Ar*e

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Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 107 total)
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  • #137285
    quadrilla
    Member
    • Total Posts 468

    Regarding Ascot: I’m as confused as anyone about the apparent fast time of the VC. Can only assume the sample size from which the standard time is derived is not large enough to be robust.

    From my records.

    Average standard times in seconds for all European courses ( Chase ), at this class and distance, over the past 10 years, are :-

    Good 254
    G/S 264
    Soft 270

    Ascot 13:45 winning time was 253.4.

    #137304
    LetsGetRacing
    Member
    • Total Posts 1147

    If a piece of wet ground is subject to much punishment at the hands (well, feet) of a miriad of spectators, Triple_Crown, surely it would be sufficiently compressed to feel fairly firm underfoot?

    Just as an side, Shawanda displaced her pelvis in the Arc having travelled like the best horse for much of the way. Do we know if this was the cause of her ‘slip’, or if it was a direct result of it?

    #137344
    Shadow Leader
    Member
    • Total Posts 763

    The person who told me it was moving underfoot will not have been walking where many spectators were. He also covered quite a bit of ground on the track, not just the final furlong!

    Quadrilla, please explain to me how you can possibly apply a blanket "standard time" to a distance regardless of the track it is run on? That is the crux of British racing – the tracks are so individual and each has their own quirks. You couldn’t possibly apply and compare the same standard time to a 2m race at, say, Aintree and Cheltenham as the contours and tracks are completely different. Not to mention that at a lot of tracks the distances vary ever so slightly – all "2m" races are not run over a distance of 2m dead.

    #137351
    quadrilla
    Member
    • Total Posts 468

    Shadow Leader

    Your right, every track has its own standard times. I have made the slight correction if the distance is not exactly 17 furlongs.

    Richard wanted a larger sample, I assume because there was insufficient results from Ascot.

    You cannot get a bigger average sample than the one produced. The times originate from the full Raceform data base. Take them or leave them – I don’t think that they are too far away tho’.

    #137356
    Shadow Leader
    Member
    • Total Posts 763

    I understand what you are saying but you cannot possibly have a decent enough sized sample from which to judge when it comes to Ascot standard times. The track was changed when the course was rebuilt so we are only in the second NH season there. Hence I totally agree with RH that the sample size for Ascot is not robust enough. You really can’t use standard European times as an accurate comparison as Ascot is not a uniform track (as indeed, not many UK tracks are).

    #137358
    Charlie D
    Member
    • Total Posts 500

    If you go to Nov 18th you will see that Demi Beau posted a Topspeed figure of 151 over CD with a 0.16 faster GA

    Now i’m not sure i’ve done this correct, but taking into account the differences in GA, weight carried and races times, it gives a 22lb better performance by Tamarinblueu than that of Demi Beau on similar going

    Which i personally found interesting

    #137361
    quadrilla
    Member
    • Total Posts 468

    Until someone measures the ACTUAL distance at Ascot – imho, the time will remain a mystery.

    #137369
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 28008

    Look at all the results at Ascot since the new course was laid.
    It shows a disproportionate amount of winners who run prominently.
    Therefore it could be (on the whole) jockeys have been going too slow early, leaving it too late to catch the front runners.
    This would explain why times so far have been slow, and why the Victor Chandler (a grade 1 that should be a bit faster) appears very fast.
    I wonder if Tom Scudamore and David Pipe are the first trainer and jockey to realise this.

    value is everything
    #137432
    quadrilla
    Member
    • Total Posts 468

    Average time in soft going at 17F is 270 sec / 3740 yards = 13.85 yards per second.

    Race time 253.4 x 13.85 yds/sec = 3509. 3509/220 yards = 11 yards short of 16 Furlongs. Spooky !!!!!! :roll:

    The allowed variance is only 110 yards. Not 231 yards.

    Did Ascot start the race at the 2 mile poles ? :roll: :roll: :roll:

    #137461
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Average time in soft going at 17F is 270 sec / 3740 yards = 13.85 yards per second.

    Race time 253.4 x 13.85 yds/sec = 3509. 3509/220 yards = 11 yards short of 16 Furlongs. Spooky !!!!!! :roll:

    The allowed variance is only 110 yards. Not 231 yards.

    Did Ascot start the race at the 2 mile poles ? :roll: :roll: :roll:

    Not a chance Quadrilla.
    They jumped one fence before turning into the straight, the 2m start is actually in the straight.

    #137564
    quadrilla
    Member
    • Total Posts 468

    Spot on reet hard, I have watched the start again. And taken some sectional times.

    If the start ( plus a few yards to the 4Fur pole ) to the finish line ( first 4Fur ) took 1min 7sec.
    The 4Fur pole to the finish ( last 4Fur ) took 1min 7sec.

    Could the middle 9Fur be run in exactly 2min ?

    9Fur in a faster time by 14 sec than 8Fur !

    #137580
    Drone
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5457

    Nice work Quadrilla

    Is there anyone out there who knows exactly what work was done to the NH track during Ascot’s closure?

    Have any fences been rebuilt and/or re-sited?

    Has any drainage work been done on the round course?

    Has any turf been relaid on the round course or, if re-sown, was a ‘lighter’ soil imported as a seedbed?

    Has the inside rail been moved?

    Has any landscaping taken place i.e removal of undulations?

    Has the Clerk actually been out with his yard-wheel to check the race distances?

    #137590
    Charlie D
    Member
    • Total Posts 500

    What i find interesting is that we have many journalists (some members of this forum) who rattle on about racetimes, but not one of em has an interest in getting off their arse, measuring the distances at a racecourse and reporting back their findings to the great unwashed

    #137596
    Richard Hoiles
    Member
    • Total Posts 197

    Reet,

    Not if they harrow deeper which is what Kempton and Lingfield do when it rains and left open.

    #137613
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5830

    Nice work Quadrilla

    Is there anyone out there who knows exactly what work was done to the NH track during Ascot’s closure?

    Have any fences been rebuilt and/or re-sited?

    Has any drainage work been done on the round course?

    Has any turf been relaid on the round course or, if re-sown, was a ‘lighter’ soil imported as a seedbed?

    Drone

    The NH course straight was relaid farther north than the original straight. This section was completely relaid including drainage, hence the diifference in drainage and going between the new part and the remainder of the course.

    Not sure regarding fence positioning, but the water jump was replaced with a plain fence. Looking at Google Earth, a photo taken during relaying of the course suggests that the six fences farthest from the stand were not moved.

    The 2 mile start for chases became impractical since it would have been close to the final bend, hence the new 2m 1f distance with a fence before the straight.

    The mile straight of the flat course was re-aligned and relaid in it’s entirety, with the previous road crossing being replaced by a tunnel.

    Rob

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