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Don’t mean to be rude to any Irish members and it is meant as an innocent question but I am curious since Michael mentioned it in the chat room one evening.
Since we have so many Irish contributors it seems that most of you are extremely patriotic and only seem to fancy Irish horses or horses trained by Irish trainers.
I personally have no problem backing a horse from any country as long I think I have the winner.
I’m really interested to hear your thinking as it does come across that at Cheltenham you will only be backing Irish horses.
Daylight,
I think its the whole them and us mentality and that by backing an Irish winner at Cheltenham you are keeping your allegiance to the side and also gives you greater incentive to cheer and raise the roof if an Irish horse does win.
However it will lead to the poorhouse if it blinds the Irish punter as I think we may struggle this year.
I find the topic insulting and wonder what reaction I would get if I asked do all English punters drink cans of special brew and sign on.
Sorry if it offends you as I honestly didn’t mean it as anything other than a serious question (see my first thread). But if you are not the sole person who finds this insulting I will remove ASAP.<br>
Valid point Daylight cos there is a lot of partisan rubbish out there. Personally, I’ll cheer home an Irish winner at Cham or wherever it wins across the water but I won’t let where the horse is from colour my judgement.
I suppose that the fact these horses are being sent across the water lends many punters to believe that they must be a good thing. There are multiple reasons for Irish trainers sending runners over to England – the singlemost reason probably being the ground.
A lot of the time it is too hard to equate the Irish and English form and therefore I hold fire for the most part. But then again you’ve got to take every invader on its merits and only then assess whether its a viable betting opportunity or not.
It might make u feel better backing a home grown winner on foreign terrain over the enemy but invariably it will make you a lot poorer.
I would maintain the average Irish mug punter in common with the average English mug punter will back the favourite as often as possible.<br>I have worked in bookmakers in Ireland and England and I never ceased to be amazed by the number of people who blindly back favourites.
I have given a bit of thought to this lately. I would consider myself pathriotic but where there is money to be made then I will try and make it. The Supreme Novices Hurdle is the best example. I am going over to Cheltenham for the Tuesday. I have not even looked at the opposition ! Why ? Because it is being drilled into me that the Irish banker is running in this race as it was 2 years ago when Youllneverwalkalone cantered home at odds of 4/5………………..in third place :biggrin:
You make a fair point , just do not be standing next to me when Isty wins……………
I’m Irish. I’m going to Cheltenham again this year.<br>I don’t find the question insulting at all. It is a topic I have often discussed.
Almost all Irish punters know that backing Irish horses exclusively is the road to ruin but there will be races in which a lot of us will allow nationality to decide the issue.
Sometimes it is clear that our horses are not up to the mark but if we feel we have one good enough there is a massive and sometimes overwhelming temptation to back it.
There is a huge them and us thing about Cheltenham. An Irish winner is ten times the crack and to really get the value of it you have to back it. I’m not talking monetary value.
Of course, these Irish horses are ones we are familiar with, may have won money on in the past and are the talking horses amongst the Irish at Cheltenham.
There is a truth in the assertion that Irish Punters at Cheltenham are blinkered. Of course there are those whose only interest is the betting and the money but for most of us there is much more to Cheltenham than that.
I am glad you took it in the context that it was meant (harmless and innocent question) as last thing I wanted when I started this thread was to upset any Irish folk as they are really valued here.<br>I think about ‘us and them’ factor doesn’t really exist here in England (of course I’m only speaking for myself) as I know most of us would cheer Isty home, Foxchapel King (esp me :biggrin: ) etc. no matter what horse it was, nor do I honestly think if I couldn’t decide what to back I would chose an English horse just because of 3 letters next to it’s name.
As Escorial says it’s probably our loss as we certainly have seemed to lose our identity and being like you guys might make the festival even more exciting.
Actually, I don’t think the English are any different on the whole.
If you go the the Arc it’s full of English backing no-hope English horses, for the fun, because of home hype, and special cheer when they win.
I remember watching the Breeders Cup one year at Newbury racecourse. Everyone had backed Barathea despite it being a 9/1 dodgepot and there was an extra special ‘put one over on the Yanks’ celebration afterwards.
Nick Mordin has done study after study showing how we let foreign horses go off at ‘value’ odds out of blind prejudice. We may not do that with the French any more, having had our fingers burnt, but we still do it with the German horses.
And if I’m honest I tend to oppose the Irish horses at Cheltenham for no other reason than nationality.
This is an interesting topic,
I must admit, I come across as very patriotic as regards Irish horses. I would be one of those who would consider it a "them against us" thing but if I genuinely think an Irish horse will not win, I would say so. For example, I never fancied Limestone Lad to win a Stayers Hurdle on good ground when he lost to Bacchanal….so I didn’t back him. I’m sure many did,
Personally, at the moment I feel a lot of Irish horses are underrated in England, especially the ones such as Bannow Bay who haven’t yet raced in England. It’s as if they haven’t "proved " themselves. Even if they’ve won better class races at home. That’s possibly what makes an Irish winner so sweet.
The situation isn’t much different to that of European horses in the Breeders Cup. How many punters here actually back American horses in those races. Only the knowledgable..
Following on from what Luke says about people only betting favourites. That is true. That also extends to people who always back McCoy. Ok he has a good strike rate but when it comes to championship races that means feck all…
Horse racing is a passion to us, far more so than England I feel .. when Danoli came third in the AIG Champion Hurdle he received a massive cheer. Limestone Lad was still a hero when losing at Cheltenham, that kind of thing. But still, when LLT destroyed them all at Down Royal he received a heroes welcome. It’s all about the horses,
To be honest, I would get the same enjoyment out of Cheltenham even with no money riding on it. An Irish winner I hadn’t backed would probably give me more pleasure than a 33/1 English horse that I had backed ..
I can’t help it, I’m Irish, I won’t apologise it. I’m not blinkered, I’m patriotic and while I would cheer the Irish horses home all the way, it still doesn’t stop me from backing the horse I think will win. The sad thing is, when I actually study a race and believe the Irish horse will win people brand me as blinkered.
The biggest win I ever had at Cheltenham was when Anzum won the Stayers Hurdle at 40/1 beating hotpot Le Coudray.Anzum was my nap of the meeting,Le Coudray my bismarck of the meeting.<br>I watched that race in a pub with about 150 people who on the whole had taken the day off work and using that day as a barometer people tend to back the shorter prices regardless of being Irish or English or even French.
I agree with Daniel as I think the Irish are more passionate about horseracing and they tend to stick by their own because they know more about them than they do British horses, in a way it’s the same with football as I think we Scots are more passionate about football than the English are, I’ve often spoke about football in the chatroom but no-one seems to know much about our game yet they like to criticise it, back to racing – I often don’t back the Irish horses as I don’t know nuch about them but I can tell who the "stars" are as we read about these ones but the everyday Irish meetings I haven’t a clue about although have been trying to take an interest!
Firstly I dont find this thread insulting Daylight interesting definately.<br> I think it’s safe to say that when this forum talks about blinkered Irish views my name might come up a bit!!!But I dont mind I know myself that alot of the time I can be looking through green tinted glasses!!!But I dont back horse’s very much so I dont loose through the pocket.<br> I guess alot of it is down to patriotism but also I have worked with the horses or at least the horse’s connections so I can be defensive about them.Also I know from this forum it might look like Irish people only back Irish horses but go into a Irish bookies Cheltenham week and apart from the "Irish bankers" there are plenty of English horses being backed.<br> I think the Irish just enjoy their racing more because their closer to it and hence are more passionate about it.Irish will predict 15 winners at Cheltenham every year but we KNOW it aint going to happen…………..3-4 will seem like 15 though cause thats the beauty of Cheltenham.And you have to remember that we havent had our fix of Cheltenham for 2years so were rarely to go!!!!
I’m actually reading a book about this at the minute (its called ‘Them and Us’ – the Irish at Cheltenham). I’m still none the wiser! <br>I’m guilty of it myself (even though I live in Northern Ireland so you could argue I’m technically not Irish). <br>We are, without a doubt in my eyes, more passionate about racing than the English. Racing over here seems a lot more intimate than in England – everyone knows someone and people are always willing to talk to strangers. Well that’s what I’ve always found anyway. Ireland is the home of National hunt racing, Ok the english might have developed it for us, but the first recorded steeplechase took place here! I’ve been to stacks of point to points and race meetings, though regrettably I haven’t yet been pony racing (can anybody tell me what that’s like?), and there is some magic quality, the ‘craic’ (not just the Guiness).<br>We love to cheer Irish horses home, particularly at cheltenham, and I’m sure some do back horses just cos they’re Irish, but i wouldn’t back an Irish horse that had no chance just cos it was Irish. If however it was a choice between an english and an irish horse i know which I would be on! I think we feel that the english underestimate our horses somewhat, especially those from relatively small, ‘unknown’ yards, and we love to prove you all wrong.<br>Ok, so after all that rambling its clear i have no idea why we do it – one of life’s great mysteries!
When it comes to sporting events i am definate’ly patriotic, and i have learned that this clouds my judgement, so i try not to bet at all on these events. For instance, the Breeders Cup, or the world cup, or a boxing match, i an normally always right behind our home interest.
I think to a certain degree we all suffer from this.
then again Vintage crop became british after winning the melbourne cup. Johannesburg, Giants causeway etc was british when running the breeders cup. I think the slagging off of irish racing – tin pot races – and teh labellig of horse over hyped is equally as bad as the defence put up by irish contributors to this forum.
Ireland is the home of teh national hunt horse. Irish breds are still the most robust horses and the most dependable long term. France very fashionable for young horses admittedly. Some of teh irish contributors lived therough teh eighties where there were no winners at cheltenham festivals, where any horse placed in a bumper was bought by N henderson or D nicholson. Imperial call was probably the turnabout, offered huge money, lissellan farms turned down all attempts before teh gold cup. This period made irish supporters aware of teh good horses that they have., and maybe a bit more patriotic.
not like ye english types to get carried away re best mate " no really, he his the next arkle" after ebating fadalko and desert mountain at exeter. Barton – "best horse ever seen" Peter Easterby who tained Night nurse, sea pigoen and must have seen arkle.
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