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I agree his best performance was on soft but he was never likely to get soft in midsummer was he? And now you’re saying he doesn’t run in the Arc coz he won’t beat Enable on quicker ground. What about the King George then? There was no Enable then. How about the Irish Champion or the Juddmonte or the Eclipse or any of the middle distance Group 1’s in Europe this season where Enable hasn’t been able to run? If you are right Mark then they should just say it. “Once again we are not running because of Enable”.
Fwiw there is now lots of rain in the forecast for Paris overnight and into tomorrow and I also think Roaring Lion will be fav at Ascot if the ground is good. One question i’d like you to ask yourself. When Cracksman enters the horse box to be taken to stud will you will be able to say “ah – there goes a great horse who fulfilled his potential.”? All I keep hearing from AO and JG is how he is back to his best. They’ve been saying it for months! And yet here we have the biggest middle distance race in Europe and for the second and last time, a fully fit Cracksman will be missing it. Crazy.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
how to bring a horse back from a setback or how easily those setbacks can occur.
How easy is it for those setbacks occur/reoccur Ginge.?
It may have been an easier race by name but the runner up was beaten further than he was when runner up in the KG
the timings of the comeback would of course come into it as she would need to be ready but if ready the KG would be not a problem..?Charles Darwin to conquer the World
The question to ask yourself and answer as objectively as possible:
If Enable wasn’t running would Cracksman be there?
Not only do I believe he would but Frankie would be gushing about how well he was doing and how great a decision it was to miss it last year to let the horse mature, blah, blah, blah.
Yeah joe that was pretty much what i was getting at previously, he would 1000% be heading to france on sunday, thats why all other points against, about where hsi bestform lies or ground or Whatever are not relevant
Gosden/AO have definitely made a mess of it with Cracksman.
As has been said before, if you forget all the PR nonsense he’s only won a champion stakes. Coronation cups are very average when it comes to making stallions, especially when he struggled to beat Salouen and it was unusually soft ground for Derby weekend.
That’s not a top stallion prospect to me, and even if he wins a second CS will that help his page much? Perhaps if RL is behind him but I think that may not be the case if it’s GS ground.
Placing in the Arc wouldn’t boosted his page considerably more than swerving it completely IMO. It would’ve shown he was more versatile ground wise also.
Why should they be scared of losing to Enable? He’s been beat a handful of times already, yet they’ve treated him like he’s Frankel.Crystal Ocean should be running too – if he placed his stallion page would have improved tenfold.
For me there was no excuse for not running in last year’s Arc, he had won over course and distance (so Gosden’s not acting on the track remark was
) and the ground was actually listed as soft.His performance in the Champion Stakes told me that he would have beaten Enable in the Arc and I believe that is why he was rerouted because they didn’t want to ruin her run through the season by being beaten by her own stable companion and some how AO was ‘convinced’ by a Dettori/Gosden double team to miss the race.
I know a trainers job is to win the most amount of prize money for an owner but the interesting thing to note is that if Cracksman had finished second to Enable he would have won more prize money (almost £240k) than he actually did for winning the Champion Stakes – whilst I was in the minority that thought he would beat her, I doubt many would argue that he wouldn’t have been 2nd).
Incidentally, a good guide to what ground conditions are like at Longchamp today (ground given as good) will be to see how Addeybb performs as we know he likes some juice in the ground to perform at his best (he blew out totally on good to firm last time).
If the ground at Ascot is good on Champions Day will Cracksman have the basic speed to deal with Roaring Lion or will Gosden be able to ‘convince’ Qatar to switch to the QE2, some how I doubt it unless the weather changes.
I would agree with that as well LD73, he should have ran it last year as well. It is so disappointing that he isn’t running tomorrow, thought it is reassuring that most people on here seem to be of the same opinion. The thought of him taking on Enable, we’ll never know.
My early selections went a long time ago, so I’ve had a small bet for interest on Way To Paris each way for 4 places at 125-1, though it will hopefully be a performance to remember from Enable.
His performance in the Champion Stakes told me that he would have beaten Enable in the Arc and I believe that is why he was rerouted because they didn’t want to ruin her run through the season by being beaten by her own stable companion and some how AO was ‘convinced’ by a Dettori/Gosden double team to miss the race.I know a trainers job is to win the most amount of prize money for an owner but the interesting thing to note is that if Cracksman had finished second to Enable he would have won more prize money (almost £240k) than he actually did for winning the Champion Stakes – whilst I was in the minority that thought he would beat her, I doubt many would argue that he wouldn’t have been 2nd).
There’s a reason they swerved Enable LD…not the other way round…..
A trainers job isn’t only to win the most prize money….it’s to get horse big wins + G1s in this circumstance…
AO couldn’t give a monkeys about an extra 100k, he wants a stallion and big race wins.
If Cracksman had run in the Arc last year, not won …he’d have a Ganay and a Coronation to his name….and the way this season’s gone his reputation has went down the hill some what.
His best performance comes from missing the Arc + that’s that.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!That’s a really good point Kris. At the start of the season we were all wetting our lips at the prospect of Enable V Cracksman. Alas, we’ll never know…..
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
I agree with you Jack and think Cracksman hasn’t progressed as they would have liked and they are making the right decision as they know he can’t beat Enable, I think he was left in there as a sub in-case anything happened to Enable. They won’t say that as Joni asked because the same reasons as why O’Brien would never say anything negative about one of their prospective stallions.
The thing I don’t like to a degree and know plans change things happen etc is that the owner was over keen in saying the main targets were the KG and Arc and the horse will run in neither.
Had this been Rich Ricci and one of his main battalion he’d be hung, drawn and quartered
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
Jack – agree to disagree, just a shame we will never have a definitive answer one way or the other….racings loss
Hold up horses are going to need a charmed passage with 16 runners and no cutaway when they enter the straight – might have a nibble EW on Cloth of Stars, done next to nothing all year and Talismanic who was only a couple of lengths behind Waldgeist last time and yet is almost 5 times his price, Fabre has a habit of getting his horses to run well on the day.
Going is going to be all important. Both how much rain they get and how patchy the surface is. I put yesterday’s surface between Good and good-firm. Or at least Ostilio’s time was… But he deliberately came wide. Unless the fresh (saved) ground on the inner is faster than yesterday’s inner it may actually pay to come very wide.
Zoe Bird hasn’t got a clue. The inner will apparently suit Enable because it’s good; whilst the middle is (according to her) good-firm. Doh!
If Enable runs on good ground whilst others are on good-firm – it enables others to go faster on quicker ground.
Value Is EverythingIn the hope of at least good ground I’ve backed (along with Crystal Ocean ante-post):
Kew Gardens and Defoe witha saver on Enable.Value Is EverythingSEA OF CLASS has a lovely attitude and if she can overcome the bad draw I think she could win this forJames Doyle/William Haggas.
Went on a visit to his yard at the beginning of September as part of the Frankel tour and was lucky enough to see her and even stroke her nose. She coped beautifully with her admiring band of fans (almost stole the show from Frankel). What I noticed about her was her lovely head and long neck which might come in useful today if she has to fight out a finish.
JacThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
) and the ground was actually listed as soft.
Jac
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