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Can anyone with an ounce of sense tell me why on earth do we have so much all weather racing between the months of April to August.I cannot see what the purpose is of than for bookmakers benefit.They compete against each other at least once a week with so many contrasting results.The good h’capcappers from the turf end up struggling to win sellers after they have run over 15 or more times in a year.
Racing for change and all this talk of poor prize money,well so much is wasted on poor all weather fixtures which have no place outside the winter months.The Kempton Easter and September meetings should be moved to a turf track as how can they have trials for classics and the Arc etc run on all weather.
Common sense seems to be old fashioned in this country now.
How do the real public feel about this.Yes its one of my top gripes.
Better out than in.To satisfy the bookmakers firstly. Secondly to accomdate to many low grade terrible horses. Thirdly to fund the bookmakers
The AW fixtures are there because the turf courses are incapable of staging the number of meetings required to meet the contract racing has with bookmakers – that’s to say three each afternoon, two each evening and more at weekends.
And that’s despite two turf tracks being modified to provide two straight courses (Haydock and Nottingham), another having been split in two by a permanent rail (Newmarket July), and two more having a moveable central rail to spread the wear across the width of the track (Newmarket Rowley and Windsor).
Those five turf tracks now stage many more meetings than they did 15 years ago, but it’s still not enough to meet the demand.
And at the risk of repeating myself, many people in racing don’t share the prejudice against the artificial surfaces. As an owner, I like to run horses at Kempton etc, because I know the chances of my horse being injured are far less, I know the horse will recover more quickly from the race, and I don’t have to spend five days between entry and race wondering if it will rain, or if the clerk of the course will over water the track.
AP
Whilst I appreciate your comments AP and all owners are needed, I think there is far to much racing and all weather in the summer months being one of those mediums.
Unfortunately I never ever look at the AW meetings because it is generally the lowest grade of racing where you can run the same race day in and day out with a different result virtually every time.
Good for the bookies but not for the punter. If what you say is correvt that the BHA have to have so many meetings because of some contract then there really is something wrong with the sport at the top without going into the other problems within the sport.
It would be interesting to do a poll on here to see what people want. AW or turf whether it be in summer or winter.
Afflicted by a summer plague the intensity of which could scarcely have been matched in olden times and after reading this thread last thing, a be-suited choir – which, I now surmise, may have been an unconscious cathexis stimulated by the Id – appeared to me, in a dream, surrounded by a soothing pale light.
Sand! sand! sand! sand!
Sand! sand! sand! sand!
Sand! sand! sand! sand!
Lovely SAND! Wonderful SAND! (Basso)
Lovely sand! Lovely sand! Lovely sand! Lovely sand!
sand sand sand sand!The sun’s rays burst through my curtains, waking me. Wiping the rancid effluvium from my nose and chin with the back of my hand as I brewed an invigorating concoction of schnapps, goats milk and hot lemon, I felt a strange compulsion in my loins. I turned to the computer at my desk.
Through my fugue, I realised, with a knowing smile, that seven races from Southwell – and two late contests from Lingfield – were calling me, the Sirens…
No further questions, yer honour.
Excellent posts both, AP and Max.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
just off the top of my head, can think of Ghanaati (3rd in a Kempton maiden before winning back there as a 2yo) and Lucarno (winner of a Kempton maiden on second start as a 3yo) who both ran on the AW during the normal turf season and went on to win classics.
Does that not indicate that there is a need for AW racing during the turf season as well as showing that it’s not necessarily full of low grade racing or horses?
AW racing is just another ground condition. With regard to class of racing it may be interesting to note the following. I have a database of approximately 4500 races that spans nearly two years. There are not many Saturdays or Bank Holidays included but it gives you the general gist. Date range is March to October. Turf tracks are Bath, Brighton, Carlisle, Catterick and Chepstow
AW
Class 1 7 races 0.50%
Class 2 13 races 0.92%
Class 3 56 races 3.98%
Class 4 242 races 17.2%
Class 5 499 races 35.47%
Class 6 573 races 40.72%
Class 7 17 races 1.21%Turf
Class 1 0 races 0%
Class 2 1 race 0.20%
Class 3 7 races 1.40%
Class 4 47 races 9.42%
Class 5 218 races 43.69%
Class 6 226 races 45.29%These statistics could change if including Weekends and Bank holidays, maybe someone with a complete data set could provide the information but looking at the above nearly 89% of racing at those 5 turf courses is grade 5 & 6 and yet I don’t hear much of a clamour for getting rid of those.
I agree 100% with your comments.Ap proves that this silly contract with the bookies proves they run racing.The BHA has no control or desire to change that.I expect they get their fair share of revenue for it.Once again its profit before people or of course the sport.I cant see any changes for the good of the sport with these blinkered capitalists exploiting it.
quote="no idea"]Whilst I appreciate your comments AP and all owners are needed, I think there is far to much racing and all weather in the summer months being one of those mediums.Unfortunately I never ever look at the AW meetings because it is generally the lowest grade of racing where you can run the same race day in and day out with a different result virtually every time.
Good for the bookies but not for the punter. If what you say is correvt that the BHA have to have so many meetings because of some contract then there really is something wrong with the sport at the top without going into the other problems within the sport.
It would be interesting to do a poll on here to see what people want. AW or turf whether it be in summer or winter.
To allow the fiddlers to fiddle?
Spot on!!And its a fair tune they have been fiddling!!
Why don’t you put a poll up, rockerrich. You seem to have an axe to grind in the early stages of your membership.
Fitzer, JJM Sports, I spoke to the BHA recently about some of the comments I made on a previous thread about Southwell. He was concerned and wanted clarification. We arranged to meet. Thus, I introduced a member of the Integrity committee to the paddock regulars and to a prominent bookmaker.
In his interviews, it wasn’t fiddling that was considered the main problem, but uncompetitive racing.
Check out today’s action. It was a favourite backers paradise and some of the most uncompetitive racing I’ve ever seen. Utterly dull. What is the point of being a layer at Southwell? In the stayers, the Ellison horse was the only one backed and nothing got near it. Nothing particularly wanted to get near it.
That fourteen runner handicap, ostensibly competitive, was ten to one bar four and the finish concerned three of those four. It’s no longer sport, it’s a stock market. That’s the major problem.
Your accusations of fiddling are just prejudice. There are probably 2,500 races run on artificial surfaces every year and the BHA have found ten dodgy ones. Even if there are a hundred bent races, that’s less than 1%.
The most high profile dodgy race this year – which I discussed with the BHA – was on a Saturday, on terrestrial TV, over the sticks.
To amplify and support Aaron’s point, thanks to Rod Street and the RCA, racing in the week OF ALL CODES, is becoming so uncompetitive, it’s hardly worth skiving work to bet on it. Dull too – the meeting at Ffos Las on Tuesday night, with one average trainer winning four races, double digit distance finishes and small fields, was so tedious I had to repeatedly prod myself in the cheek with a sharpened bookies pen in a bid to stay awake.
I don’t see any difference between the summer dross on the all weather & the summer dross on the turf nor the summer dross over jumps for that matter.
I agree with the poster above who considers AW to be just another ground condition.
Why don’t you put a poll up, rockerrich. You seem to have an axe to grind in the early stages of your membership.
Fitzer, JJM Sports, I spoke to the BHA recently about some of the comments I made on a previous thread about Southwell. He was concerned and wanted clarification. We arranged to meet. Thus, I introduced a member of the Integrity committee to the paddock regulars and to a prominent bookmaker.
In his interviews, it wasn’t fiddling that was considered the main problem, but uncompetitive racing.
Check out today’s action. It was a favourite backers paradise and some of the most uncompetitive racing I’ve ever seen. Utterly dull. What is the point of being a layer at Southwell? In the stayers, the Ellison horse was the only one backed and nothing got near it. Nothing particularly wanted to get near it.
That fourteen runner handicap, ostensibly competitive, was ten to one bar four and the finish concerned three of those four. It’s no longer sport, it’s a stock market. That’s the major problem.
Your accusations of fiddling are just prejudice. There are probably 2,500 races run on artificial surfaces every year and the BHA have found ten dodgy ones. Even if there are a hundred bent races, that’s less than 1%.
The most high profile dodgy race this year – which I discussed with the BHA – was on a Saturday, on terrestrial TV, over the sticks.
To amplify and support Aaron’s point, thanks to Rod Street and the RCA, racing in the week OF ALL CODES, is becoming so uncompetitive, it’s hardly worth skiving work to bet on it. Dull too – the meeting at Ffos Las on Tuesday night, with one average trainer winning four races, double digit distance finishes and small fields, was so tedious I had to repeatedly prod myself in the cheek with a sharpened bookies pen in a bid to stay awake.
I thought the racing at Ffos Las Tuesday was excellent. You call them average trainers but most of them were in the top ten last season and there were some very exciting young horses there. Pity you don`t point the sharpened bookies pen somewhere more effective
Well, I love the all weather racing……it’s a small enough set of tracks and runners to enable the punter to get to know them
Had a nice winner today in Hit The Switch – my in depth study of Southwell tells me that half decent Southwell milers often win the 11 furlong races at good odds
I like the ‘fairly’ consistant going which gives speed figs a modicum of meaning compared to turf
I’ve changed my mind completely over the last couple of years…….I would have agreed with the OP but after specialising in AW racing for two years i’ve concluded that the animals are what they are. They generally do their best and in every race one of them is going to win
The main fare I look at is class 4,5,6 handicaps but then I tend to do the same on turf………..I’ve spent most of the evening eschewing epsom and studying a couple of small field low grade handicaps at Bath
Each to their own !
Spot on!!
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