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“Us?”
So far, I don’t actually see anyone agreeing with you, GT.
You described “Good to Firm” as “too dangerous.”
I say: “where’s the statistical evidence?”
No one has ever produced any.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Good-firm is too dangerous for the Grand National Ian.
Because the Grand National is still under threat from those wanting it banned.
The more fatalities in the Grand National the more likely it is to be banned…
And the firmer the surface the more injuries and fatalities.If wanting “statistical evidence”, you go and hit your head at speed on a solid firm surface 100 times.
I’ll do the same on a well watered soft surface 100 times.
…And we’ll compare results.Value Is Everything“If wanting “statistical evidence”, you go and hit your head at speed on a solid firm surface 100 times.
I’ll do the same on a well watered soft surface 100 times.”Is this available on Sky Box Office?
BUY THE SUN
‘Raining quite heavily in South Liverpool now.’
I hope it’s coming to the Westcountry, recently laid some turf so I’d like soft, heavy in places but a combination of sun and wind is making it good to firm without frequent watering.
“I have just mowed what passes for a lawn at my Hampshire fastness for the first time this year and I’d like to announce that, to show solidarity with top-of-the-ground horses everywhere, I shall not be watering at any time this spring and summer or thereafter.”
Bet it’s still more space than you’d get in Raynes Park though mate! I’m in New Malden and the only outdoor space I have is a shared balcony that’s just about big enough to have a cigarette on lol. Would genuinely love to move away from the city when I finish my studies and get a well paid job. Or at least to a city that is a bit more spacious or sunny than London. I’d take either, beggars cant be choosers after all!
““If wanting “statistical evidence”, you go and hit your head at speed on a solid firm surface 100 times.
I’ll do the same on a well watered soft surface 100 times.”Is this available on Sky Box Office?”
if so I’m sure skybet will provide some odds for us too!“Bet it’s still more space than you’d get in Raynes Park though mate!”
The Racing Post used to be based in Raynes Park and I worked there 1988/94.
Small world!
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I agree with Ginger! Ian, you aren’t going to get your evidence nowadays as connections wouldn’t want to risk their charges on a firmer surface. Which I guess is itself evidence of a sort.
Breeding has probably made the modern-day racehorse less robust, but allowing them to run on firm ground is much more likely to end Jumps racing than turn the clock back.
Ian,
I’m not sure this would be the evidence you’re looking for but here it is any way. I was chatting to a driver of a horse-ambulance on course, admittedly a few yars ago now, and the subject of horse fatalities cropped up, he was without doubt in his mind that “summer jumping” was the biggest culprit.Which, I think, suggests that firm’fast ground isn’t ideal jumping ground.
Not raining but it sounds very windy out there. It must be drying out the ground.
I think the clerk of the course should put at least half an inch of water on the track, just to be on the safe side.
The evidence I would like to see, chaps, is numbers and the BHA should be generating it and publishing it.
How many horses raced on: Hard, Firm, Good to Firm, Good to Soft, Soft and Heavy ground in the last 10 years?
What percentage were injured on each surface?
I’ve never seen these stats – have you?
If so, seriously, please provide a link.
In 1990, Mr Frisk raced on ground as Firm as it ever was at Aintree – two horses were killed, ooh, sounds like Firm ground is dangerous!
But hold on, in 1989 it was Heavy – two horses died again.
It was deemed to be the fences, not the surface, and these were modified after 1990.
This is the tiniest of statistical samples – there have probably been 100,000 races Flat and Jumps the last ten years.
There should be stats compiled from those races and analysed before just blindly chucking water on tracks everywhere.
If robust horses with good bone aren’t winning Group 1 races on proper summer Firm ground any more and going to stud the breed will get more and more fragile.
Watering is IMO a futile exercise with no statistical basis which will actually further damage racing going forwards.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"‘He likes to hear his hooves rattle’ It’d be a summer jumps campaign for Rummy these days then.
I think it’s the perception that firm is probably ‘asking for it’ that has swayed things.
You’ll have outliers like the 1998 running on softish ground where we’d lost three even before they got to Bechers.
I have also been told that watering can produce injuries as it’s often less than uniform and horses can injure tendons racing from one false patch onto a sounder surface and vice versa.
I would just like to see stats not only on average injuries per furlong raced broken down into different going types but also include the data for injuries per furlong on watered ground too.
Stats don’t lie.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"The rain is holding off but it is very windy. Looking at the flags, it appears to be a cross wind across the Mildmay course.
“I would just like to see stats not only on average injuries per furlong raced broken down into different going types but also include the data for injuries per furlong on watered ground too.
Stats don’t lie”.
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I’d like to see that too Ian, if it wasn’t for the anti-Racing brigade.
If getting your wish the anti-Racing brigade will use it to bring about the end to Jump racing.
You’d just as well write the title for them, “The Unacceptable Cost Of Horse Racing”.
Stat’s don’t “lie”, but they can be twisted.Value Is Everything
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