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1. Just travelling to and from a racecourse on an almost-daily basis would incur considerable added expense in terms of petrol, entrance fees etc
2. That time used on the road could be more profitably used studying form. If one is going to the races, when does one study form, the night before (after one has returned late from yesterday’s meeting)? Unless you were limiting your entire betting experience to 2-3 days a week at the course, you’d soon be shattered.
Mike
When I went to all 5 days of the Goodwood Festival this year thankfully I stayed at my parents. Studying form for around 4 or 5 hours the evening/night before, putting bets on as I went as well as in the morning while having breakfast. Leave Romsey around an hour and three quarters (if I am lucky) before the first race. 50 miles along the M27 takes me around 55 mins to an hour (without hold ups). Bottle of tap water and eat mum’s sandwichs in the free car park. If no time put sarnies in binocular case and smuggle them in.
See 6 races. Although a member, watching the last of those 6 from the furthest point of Gordon enclosure allowing a quick get away. Soon as the race is over walk quickly out of the course then run to the car. Running (and missing the last) pays off as I get out of Goodwood without a problem and around Chichester before the worst of the rush hour traffic. Normally back at Romsey by around 6:15 to 6:30.
Do some work on decs and trainer form before dinner is served, roast chicken or some other feast while watching Emmerdale. Then back to work with another 4 or 5 hours of studying/betting.
Get to bed between 12:00 and 2:00.
Get up hopefully to watch the Morning Line on Channel 4+1 whilst checking going and if needing to look at anything else formwise. See markets again and have a few more bets. Breakfast is brought to me at the desk (aren’t mums grand?!). Shower/shave/wash and dress ready to leave, for another day’s racing.
Do this for all 5 days at Goodwood followed by Newbury on the Sunday.
Monday – rest.
Tuesday – rest.
Wednesday – rest.You’re right Mike, it is shattering!
Value Is EverythingWhen I go to the races it’s purely a social/pleasure thing. I hardly study any form as I don’t have the time. I just stick a couple of tenners on each race for interest purposes whilst enjoying the fresh air.
Mike
What?!
£120 to £160 for "interest purposes"!Even professional gamblers only make on average around 10% to 15% on stakes. Why would a serious punter have any fun/interest bets Mike? It cuts down on profit margins.
I don’t look at it that way. When I go racing, to me it’s just entertainment in the same manner as going out for a meal or to a cricket match. I don’t expect to make a profit from those either. I don’t even regard it as betting, it’s just the price one pays for a day out.
As even the average punter gets back 84% of his stake on single win bets, a seven-race card would cost him +/- £22 in losses betting like me. Hopefully, I’m a touch better than that. 99% of the time I either come out in front by a small amount or I lose a small amount. No big deal.
I don’t have any of the information I require to have serious bets on the course and anyway I’m often with a friend/friends none of whom have any interest in racing!
Mike
Suppose it doesn’t matter if it’s just once or twice a year Mike. Am used to going on average around twice a week during the summer, and at that rate it would stack up. For me though, fun/interest bets go against the grain whatever the stake.
Value Is EverythingWhether going racing or not, calculate your profit from betting in a year. Deduct costs (travel expenses, internet subscription, Racing Channel subscription, cost of form books/papers/ entrance fee/racecard fee etc.) from your betting profit. Then divide this figure by the number of hours spent studying, travelling to and at racecourses to get an hourly rate for your efforts. If you beat the hourly rate of an Aldi check-out worker, you’re good.
Whilst it may be fun finding a winner after hours and hours of studying and is especially rewarding when you’ve followed up a hunch after being taken by the look of a horse in the pre-parade ring, I have, after many years of such behaviour, come to the conclusion that, over a lifetime you are better-off trying to win a BIG prize once or twice if lucky (Tote Jackpot / large accumulator/roll-over ITV 6 sort of bet) than landing lots of realtively smaller wins.
Don’t spend £100 or £200 a day on lots of small punts, do a perm for that amount on something that, if it comes up, will make a definite change to your lifestyle. Remember, you only need to get it right once (or twice).
One other thing, as was pointed out earlier, the hours involved in studying and the time taken travelling to and from racecourses are onerous. It may be doable when young and single but getting married and having kids scuppers this well and trulyI certainly would not recommend betting seriously to anyone searching for an easy life Insomniac. But it’s a great life.
I certainly would not recommend accumulator perms either. Chance of one coming up is written in to the odds. When punters concentrate on this sort of thing they seldom take much care in their selections either, so the chance of winning is even less.
Finding enough single selections may seem hard (it can be a lot more than £200 a day or even more than £200 on one race)… But to rely on putting the same amount on accumulator perms is harder. You’ll have long losing runs between big wins which have to be paid for. Not many could live like that without confidence (or even depression) taking its toll, and that’s key to keep a punter looking at betting in a profitable/happy mind set.
If a punter does not enjoy studying form – forget about being a serious punter. Or indeed Insomniac, if the Mrs can’t stand not only no money coming in, but also sometimes losing months! And if you’ve got kids – don’t even think about it!
Value Is EverythingThe majority of my bets are ante-post, so going to the track doesn’t come into it. But I wanted to comment on a couple of phrases that come up regularly here.
"Studying form" How do you quantify that? It’s so long ago that I dissected a race in pure ‘form study’ that I can’t even recall when it was.
I admire those with the time and dedication to do it ‘properly’. But properly, as I remember it, would take many hours per race for, say a big handicap.
If I have a confident bet, it will be on a NH race where I know the horses involved quite intimately (in the best sense of the word!). I certainly wouldn’t be able to quote all their formlines in detail, but I could give a rundown of my interpretation of their chances in a race based on general ability, character and preferences.
On the day I have that bet I’m a "Serious Punter"; most other days, I’d be betting for fun. If I have 6 confident bets a year, I’d be doing well. The rest is, as Mike says, for the enjoyment, which I’m happy to pay for (it doesn’t cost much in the end, as I do stumble across the occasional winner).
For me, the number of imponderables involved in racing does not justify hours of form study. If the work put in generated a fairer return (and I know some will say it does), I’d look differently on it. Inaccurate going reports, jockey error, luck in running and, the one I think the most underestimated of all – ‘horses are not machines’ – many simply have a bad day on the wrong day (The Fugue in the Eclipse being my most painful one this Flat season). Or something happens to them which punters don’t discover till later.
What was the one who won that big sprint a couple of weeks back who, in its previous race, had cracked its head badly leaving the stalls and finished last?
I read recently of a trainer complaining that some racecourses stable colts among fillies causing them to ‘run their race in the box’.
How many have a long, hot frustrating horsebox trip or perhaps don’t get the best of treatment from a disgruntled groom?
Racing is a frustrating and precarious business, and if optimism was in much shorter supply, it wouldn’t survive.
Another excellent post from Joe / Steeplechasing.
I would also add the comment, if detailed studying of the form was the panacea to finding winners then more people would be doing it full-time.
The best a detailed study of form can do is provide pointers and, even then, it is so subjective I don’t think it really warrants the effort.
I am the first to admit I have an extremely low boredom threshold and I don’t have the temperament to do the studying required day-in day-out. Occasionally fine but long term, naa!!
But for some it is their modus operandi and if it works for them who am I to knock it?
I know my approach works for me – most years I get an ROI within my target parameters and as long as I can make a return larger than I can in an investment account (and the best I can get there at the moment is 5.6%) then I am happy bunny punting wise.
Eddie The Shoe made a few bob out of it , and our old friend Alan Potts. Mind you, I think most of the money they made was talking and writing about it.
Just to put the record straight. Alan told me it wasn’t worth him writing those books, because the publishers went bust.
Yes, that’s common knowledge. I wasn’t just thinking of the books. They all make money from the sport other than their gambling. The Shoe, Nevison, AP- and I’m old enough to remember Alex Bird popping up on chat shows and stuff.
The majority of my bets are ante-post, so going to the track doesn’t come into it. But I wanted to comment on a couple of phrases that come up regularly here.
"Studying form" How do you quantify that? It’s so long ago that I dissected a race in pure ‘form study’ that I can’t even recall when it was.
I admire those with the time and dedication to do it ‘properly’. But properly, as I remember it, would take many hours per race for, say a big handicap.
If I have a confident bet, it will be on a NH race where I know the horses involved quite intimately (in the best sense of the word!). I certainly wouldn’t be able to quote all their formlines in detail, but I could give a rundown of my interpretation of their chances in a race based on general ability, character and preferences.
On the day I have that bet I’m a "Serious Punter"; most other days, I’d be betting for fun. If I have 6 confident bets a year, I’d be doing well. The rest is, as Mike says, for the enjoyment, which I’m happy to pay for (it doesn’t cost much in the end, as I do stumble across the occasional winner).
You’re right Joe, "studying form" means different things to different people. To do it "properly" it does take time. Though a "big handicap" would not take hours (plural). Stewards Cup for example took me around 1 1/2 hours, but that includes an assessment of value. It doesn’t always pay off, but it did that day with an 18/1 winner in Rex Imperator. However…
I would also add the comment,
if detailed studying of the form was the panacea to finding winners then more people would be doing it full-time.
The best a detailed study of form can do is provide pointers and, even then, it is so subjective I don’t think it really warrants the effort.
"Studying form" is only part of what form students need to do for profitable punting. Few punters are able to evaluate form well enough in to "chance". Many form students back the horse they believe has the best chance of winning. This is not the correct way to go about it, the horse needs to be
"value"
to win, whether the one with the best or worst chance of winning. So those who do not "evaluate form" in to "chance" will not profit from studying form and those "evaluating" form wrongly will not profit either. Punters can not hope of getting it right first time, they should work at it until they do. It took me a couple of years to profit and many more to make good profit.
But if a punter is no good at "evaluating form in to chance", then true Paul, it "does not warrant the effort" of spending time studying form. Also Joe, it stands to reason if no good at "evaluating form in to chance" then punters having fewer "serious" bets – the more chance he/she has of making a profit than with many bets. Although sorry Joe, I would not call anyone having so few proper bets a year as a "serious punter".
I know my approach works for me – most years I get an ROI within my target parameters and as long as I can make a return larger than I can in an investment account (and the best I can get there at the moment is 5.6%) then I am happy bunny punting wise.
I’d imagine Paul, you are an expert paddock watcher. Although not looking for "value", the fact us mere racegoers miss what you see – means you’ve found "value" in the market and so profit.
Value Is EverythingEddie The Shoe made a few bob out of it , and our old friend Alan Potts. Mind you, I think most of the money they made was talking and writing about it.
Just to put the record straight. Alan told me it wasn’t worth him writing those books, because the publishers went bust.
Yes, that’s common knowledge. I wasn’t just thinking of the books. They all make money from the sport other than their gambling. The Shoe, Nevison, AP- and I’m old enough to remember Alex Bird popping up on chat shows and stuff.
AP also resigned from the old ATR because they were not allowing him enough time whilst on the show to put bets on. ie It was costing him money to work for them.
Value Is EverythingFor me, the number of imponderables involved in racing does not justify hours of form study. If the work put in generated a fairer return (and I know some will say it does), I’d look differently on it. Inaccurate going reports, jockey error, luck in running and, the one I think the most underestimated of all – ‘horses are not machines’ – many simply have a bad day on the wrong day (The Fugue in the Eclipse being my most painful one this Flat season). Or something happens to them which punters don’t discover till later.
What was the one who won that big sprint a couple of weeks back who, in its previous race, had cracked its head badly leaving the stalls and finished last?
I read recently of a trainer complaining that some racecourses stable colts among fillies causing them to ‘run their race in the box’.
How many have a long, hot frustrating horsebox trip or perhaps don’t get the best of treatment from a disgruntled groom?
Racing is a frustrating and precarious business, and if optimism was in much shorter supply, it wouldn’t survive.
"Imponderables"
…
"Innaccurate going reports"
: If it’s a two+ day’s meeting punters can look at standard times of the previous day. Although most going reports/clerks of course aren’t that far out (with one or two exceptions).
"Jockey error, luck in running"
: We saw recently how some thought Talent and The Grey Gatsby were poorly ridden. Yet how both were ridden could be foreseen before the race. A proper look at how horses like to be ridden (pace in the race) can identify horses likely to get in to trouble ("jockey error" or "luck in running"). Of course it can happen and not always be foreseen, but both of these are massively over-played by punters.
"Horses are not machines – many simply have a bad day on the wrong day"
: Too right, but again it is overstated. Many will not show their form because of other considerations, eg going or pace. And even when the horse ran well last time out and what seems ideal conditions – if the trainer is out of form it will often run poorly. The excuse "trainer has a virus" or "trainer is out of form" is seldom/never used; as they do not want to own up to it. Horses are often said to have an "off day" when in fact it is temperament that makes it inconsistent, rarely putting it all in. But (if having a good form book) punters can allow for such things in their working out. Yes, there are some cases that come as a surprise. I too backed The Fugue in the Eclipse.
"What was the one who won that big sprint a couple of weeks back who, in its previous race, had cracked its head badly leaving the stalls and finished last"?
: Did not realise Jwala had knocked her head on stalls in the King George Stakes. Regret not knowing as was improving prior to Goodwood and 40/1 may have been value had I known, and should’ve known.
"I read recently of a trainer complaining that some racecourses stable colts among fillies causing them to run their race in the box"
: How many fillies have been effected by this, doubt if it’s a significant enough number to make a difference to a punter’s over all profit.
"How many have a long, hot frustrating horsebox trip or perhaps don’t get the best of treatment from a disgruntled groom"?
Former, quite a few Joe. Although even this can sometimes be foreseen by punters. Many horses do better at local tracks purely because they are bad travellers. If you look at a horse called Classic Punch. Trained by David Elsworth at Newmarket had a much better record at Newmarket. Now trained by Tim Etherington in Yorkshire has won twice at Beverley and once at Donny.
How many horses do you think get anything but the best of treatment by grooms? None or so few that makes no difference to a punter making an over all profit."Racing is a frustrating and precarious business, and if optimism was in much shorter supply, it wouldn’t survive".
Really Joe? The more a punter studies the less frustrating and more predictable racing is.
Value Is EverythingFor me, the number of imponderables involved in racing does not justify hours of form study. If the work put in generated a fairer return (and I know some will say it does), I’d look differently on it. Inaccurate going reports, jockey error, luck in running and, the one I think the most underestimated of all – ‘horses are not machines’ – many simply have a bad day on the wrong day (The Fugue in the Eclipse being my most painful one this Flat season). Or something happens to them which punters don’t discover till later.
What was the one who won that big sprint a couple of weeks back who, in its previous race, had cracked its head badly leaving the stalls and finished last?
I read recently of a trainer complaining that some racecourses stable colts among fillies causing them to ‘run their race in the box’.
How many have a long, hot frustrating horsebox trip or perhaps don’t get the best of treatment from a disgruntled groom?
Racing is a frustrating and precarious business, and if optimism was in much shorter supply, it wouldn’t survive.
"Imponderables"
…
"Innaccurate going reports"
: If it’s a two+ day’s meeting punters can look at standard times of the previous day. Although most going reports/clerks of course aren’t that far out (with one or two exceptions).
"Jockey error, luck in running"
: We saw recently how some thought Talent and The Grey Gatsby were poorly ridden. Yet how both were ridden could be foreseen before the race. A proper look at how horses like to be ridden (pace in the race) can identify horses likely to get in to trouble ("jockey error" or "luck in running"). Of course it can happen and not always be foreseen, but both of these are massively over-played by punters.
"Horses are not machines – many simply have a bad day on the wrong day"
: Too right, but again it is overstated. Many will not show their form because of other considerations, eg going or pace. And even when the horse ran well last time out and what seems ideal conditions – if the trainer is out of form it will often run poorly. The excuse "trainer has a virus" or "trainer is out of form" is seldom/never used; as they do not want to own up to it. Horses are often said to have an "off day" when in fact it is temperament that makes it inconsistent, rarely putting it all in. But (if having a good form book) punters can allow for such things in their working out. Yes, there are some cases that come as a surprise. I too backed The Fugue in the Eclipse.
"What was the one who won that big sprint a couple of weeks back who, in its previous race, had cracked its head badly leaving the stalls and finished last"?
: Did not realise Jwala had knocked her head on stalls in the King George Stakes. Regret not knowing as was improving prior to Goodwood and 40/1 may have been value had I known, and should’ve known.
"I read recently of a trainer complaining that some racecourses stable colts among fillies causing them to run their race in the box"
: How many fillies have been effected by this, doubt if it’s a significant enough number to make a difference to a punter’s over all profit.
"How many have a long, hot frustrating horsebox trip or perhaps don’t get the best of treatment from a disgruntled groom"?
Former, quite a few Joe. Although even this can sometimes be foreseen by punters. Many horses do better at local tracks purely because they are bad travellers. If you look at a horse called Classic Punch. Trained by David Elsworth at Newmarket had a much better record at Newmarket. Now trained by Tim Etherington in Yorkshire has won twice at Beverley and once at Donny.
How many horses do you think get anything but the best of treatment by grooms? None or so few that makes no difference to a punter making an over all profit."Racing is a frustrating and precarious business, and if optimism was in much shorter supply, it wouldn’t survive".
Really Joe? The more a punter studies the less frustrating and more predictable racing is.
You must be a millionaire Ginge
Mike’s post is spot on , by the time you have driven to course , paid entrance , sorted something to eat , done a days racing , drive home , you are lucky to get home by 7 or 8 pm
You are knackered , and the thoughts of doing it all over again the next day make you shiver , costs apart (probably 100 oer day incl petrol )..where the heck do you get the time to study for the next day , you have a hazy idea of the form and the races you want to play , ,,after a while it becomes a grind , if you are grinding and just breaking even you are frustrated , this leads to mistakes and errors of judgement , which takes your cash
I tried it for a year about 13 yrs ago , crikey it was horrendous then , would I dream of doing it now , no way , the traffic is just too much , and frankly the costs are way too high , in 2000 it cost 700 quid a month to go 4 times a week , nowadays that would be closer to 1250/1300 a month , before you have a bet !!! no thanks
It takes a very special person to be able to sail though this and win big , I know Alan Potts did it , but then again he is a genius, very few are able to emulate him , many try but most fail , simply put you need a special set of tools , not every one has them
If you are thinking of trying it , make sure you have minimum of 6 months expenses , a minimum of 50 maximum bets for your bank
Obviously you need to have 6 months living expenses as well , keep your living money and your racing money totally seperate
best of luck
Ricky
AP also resigned from the old ATR because they were not allowing him enough time whilst on the show to put bets on. ie It was costing him money to work for them.
I threw my ten pound lottery winnings in the bin for the same reason…….
Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
Mike’s post is spot on , by the time you have driven to course , paid entrance , sorted something to eat , done a days racing , drive home , you are lucky to get home by 7 or 8 pm
You are knackered , and the thoughts of doing it all over again the next day make you shiver , costs apart (probably 100 oer day incl petrol )..where the heck do you get the time to study for the next day , you have a hazy idea of the form and the races you want to play , ,,after a while it becomes a grind , if you are grinding and just breaking even you are frustrated , this leads to mistakes and errors of judgement , which takes your cash
I tried it for a year about 13 yrs ago , crikey it was horrendous then , would I dream of doing it now , no way , the traffic is just too much , and frankly the costs are way too high , in 2000 it cost 700 quid a month to go 4 times a week , nowadays that would be closer to 1250/1300 a month , before you have a bet !!! no thanks
I had a ‘Go Racing in Yorkshire’ season ticket for a couple of years early this millennium which offered a huge discount on entry fees and I went racing – averaged out – about twice a week which included all the York meetings and a lot at Doncaster, Pontefract, Ripon, Thirsk and Wetherby. Hard graft, midnight oil, low three-figure bets, an on-course turnover over those two years around 130K and a profit on that turnover around 6%: nice, rewarding work…until expenses were deducted which all but wiped out the gross profit, despite the generous discount on entry. A shock and a salutary lesson learnt: record your expenses as you do your bets – daily
Those two years were a wonderful fool’s paradise and I still recall them fondly but it was when closeted, uncomfortable, pale and headachy in front of a big blue PC that I actually made any money
…
I tried it for a year about 13 yrs ago , crikey it was horrendous then , would I dream of doing it now , no way , the traffic is just too much , and frankly the costs are way too high , in 2000 it cost 700 quid a month to go 4 times a week , nowadays that would be closer to 1250/1300 a month , before you have a bet !!! no thanks
It takes a very special person to be able to sail though this and win big , I know Alan Potts did it , but then again he is a genius, very few are able to emulate him , many try but most fail , simply put you need a special set of tools , not every one has them
…
Ricky
I gave the matter of going full time betting/racing back in 2010 when I made redundant. My wife was supportive, we had done the sums with what we had and reasoned we had the resources to set up betting on a full-time basis with some freelance reporting as a possible back up. However, what it came down to was the thought of the continual grind. I asked myself if I woudl be prepared to go down to the likes of Newcastle or Carlisle in p***ing rain in winter only to see my one good bet of the day end up on the floor at the first. The bottom line was that I ddin’t fancy it, and I certainly didn’t fancy the linked alternative of sitting a computer and playing the exchanges all day.
I manage 2 or 3 meetings a month now fitting around work and home commitments and doing what is basically a subsidised hobby. My best bets are in maiden races on the flat and in novice/maiden hurdles and bumpers over jumps, looking for those lightly raced horses or newcomers with a significant physical advantage over the remainder. It results in about 10 bets a year averaging 50% winners, but it’s hardly likely to guarantee an income! Other than that I tend to keep any serious betting and visiting the races separate, doing my blogging and reporting rather than worrying about bagging prices. Apart from the ‘physical condition’ bets my wagers are placed searching for exchange prices generally in handicaps and claimers.
I’ve always been a racing enthusiast, and had an embarrasment of courses within reasonable driving distance when I lived in Oxfordshire, but I really enjoy the Scottish circuit. Each course is different with their own atmosphere, and each enjoyable in
their own way…., even Ayr which has too big opinion of itself! THe key point is that I can go racing and enjoy it every time, something I’m not sure I would do if racing and betting day after day.David Cormack will confirm, my idea of heaven would be card full of bumpers at Kelso!
Rob
I’ve always been a racing enthusiast, and had an embarrasment of courses within reasonable driving distance when I lived in Oxfordshire, but I really enjoy the Scottish circuit. Each course is different with their own atmosphere, and each enjoyable in
their own way…., even Ayr which has too big opinion of itself! THe key point is that I can go racing and enjoy it every time, something I’m not sure I would do if racing and betting day after day.I haven’t been racing much in recent years but still enjoy the experience as much as I ever did; an enjoyment surpassed by little else then, now and hopefully forever
On a whim a few years ago I decided to try and go racing and not have a bet: at the lovely Spring-fresh ‘n’ virgin-green Musidora day at York. Felt a bit strange at first going wholly unprepared and untutored on the runners but guess what, by the third race or so I was enjoying the peace of mind and freedom enabled by a brain unclouded by betting concerns: the sights, sounds and smells of the racecourse were more than sufficient to make for another memorable day on-course. And that’s the way it’s remained
A day at the races one thing; betting quite another
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