A step on The Long And Winding Road

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This topic contains 165 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by Gingertipster Gingertipster 2 weeks, 3 days ago.

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  • #1448775

    greenasgrass
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    • Total Posts 2257

    Joe has probably nailed it. Watch anybody get interviewed about pretty much anything nowadays: the questions won’t be “What do you think about x?” but rather “How does x make you feel?”

    #1448778
    Cav
    Cav
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    • Total Posts 4770

    A 40 hour week, roof, food, kids at school, 4 weeks vacation, and a few bob for the rainy day generally keep people quiet, Joe. Its only when thats not a reality anymore, that most people will kick up. I’d say many of Trump’s so called base are decent people, who feel neglected and forgotten. Poverty is a terrible reality, emotional reaction to it an understandable byproduct.

    Limbic or cortex? A difficult equilibrium, granted. But for sure 63 million “Trumpians” operate with a degree of both, to a greater or lesser extent. They’d be locked up it they didn’t.

    I cant think of anything more to say about the whip (and Drone will be giving out anyway….won’t you Drone?) :bye:

    #1448785
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5666

    Fair enough, Paul. For clarity (again) I have no problem with the whip in itself; I’ve been hit with one – voluntarily :) and I very much doubt it causes horses physical pain (though it must cause anguish or they wouldn’t react to it).

    What I do have an issue with is people who believe we should try to educate the public on it and try to turn them around using facts. That simply will not happen. When emotions are high, nobody is interested in being educated. In my opinion, abandonment of the whip voluntarily by the sport is vital. If we wait for a FOBT-like campaign to build against us, then, not only will that campaign succeed in the end, but it will whet the appetite of campaigners to move on to NH racing, ‘forcing’ horses into stalls, etc.

    Racing needs to ban the whip soon and voluntarily by way of vaccinating the sport against campaigners. Removing the visuals that are offensive to many and on display in 99.9% of race finishes will deprive objectors of 99.9% of their ‘oxygen’.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1448790
    Drone
    Drone
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    • Total Posts 5004

    Cavelino Rampante wrote:

    I cant think of anything more to say about the whip (and Drone will be giving out anyway….won’t you Drone?) :bye:

    Giving up more like :bye:

    Steepler nailed it:

    self-appointed spokespeople, will not put up with horses being whipped. They won’t care about the turnover of foals, non racetrack injuries, EIPH, after-racing care etc, because out of sight will be out of mind

    Yep, ban the whip and all is hunky-dory with the invisible spectre-like mammoth in the cupboard-under-the stairs remaining hidden: keep quiet in there for gawd’s sake

    #1448791
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5666

    Aye, EIPH, (bursting blood vessels in the lungs) is 1000 times the welfare issue the whip is, imo. But nobody sees it. Some Vets believe it affects 95% of competition horses and that the same animals would never run that fast under normal circumstances to cause their lungs to bleed. It’s the reason Lasix is widely used in the USA (the diuretic effect helps reduce pressure on the lungs)

    Sadly, I’m hypocritical enough to live with this. Shame on me.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1448795
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5666

    Here you are…what happens when you let campaigners take action rather than doing it yourself

    https://www.racingpost.com/news/latest/betting-and-racing-face-existential-threat-warns-former-sky-bet-boss/390944

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1448800
    raymo61
    raymo61
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    • Total Posts 4420

    Joe is right and I did say in an earlier post that the whip is going to be banned eventually and all the arguing the pro’s and con’s will achieve nothing.

    Why not beat the dolly do gooders to the punch and ban it ourselves and be in control of the situation?

    Perception is the key to everything nowadays and any amount of arguing or discussing the toss will make no difference and even if it works will only be delaying the inevitable. Maybe let them have whips but don’t let them use them behind the saddle or something like would be possible

    #1448803
    Ex RubyLight
    Ex RubyLight
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    • Total Posts 1222

    Maybe let them have whips but don’t let them use them behind the saddle or something like would be possible

    That would be just about the best solution. And you’re also right about this, Raymo.

    Why not beat the dolly do gooders to the punch and ban it ourselves and be in control of the situation?

    Personally, I don’t think that racing or at least NH Racing will disappear with the whip. I never see the whip being used in showjumping competitions and they still have survived.

    #1448814
    yeats
    yeats
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    • Total Posts 2896
    #1448816
    LostSoldier3
    LostSoldier3
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    • Total Posts 1872

    Of all the high-profile people who could talk sense on this issue (though I’m glad there is somebody taking the stand) why did it have to be Mark Johnston?

    Most of the cognoscenti regard him as a crackpot who opposes any changes in the sport by default, with his bizarre stance on 48-hour declarations and wind ops particularly damaging to his credibility.

    Hopefully others come out in support and shut down this debate.

    #1448827
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26153

    As for any hypocrisy; human jockey hitting a horse with a stick has a downside of 100% horse; human jockey jumping a fence on the back of a horse has a downside of 50% each. The first is perceived as abusing a dominant position, and therefore “wrong”. The second is perceived as a shared risk, and therefore “sporting”. In the real world, perception is everything. Plus, horses cannot refuse the whip, but they can refuse to jump, even though they often like to jump fences when they have already disposed of their jockey.

    Wrong, MV. You seem to be picking what the public perceive and what they understand.
    “In the real world” the public don’t care about jockeys; rightly recognising it is a human’s choice in taking risks. Public perception is horses have NO CHOICE, no “shared risk” and nothing “sporting” as you suggest. Joe Public sees very few “refusing to jump” or continuing to jump riderless that it simply doesn’t enter their minds that horses have any sense of choice.

    Once the whip goes jump racing will soon follow and for you to think otherwise is just wishful thinking.

    value is everything
    #1448828
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 26153

    The whip is a protective barrier that surrounds Racing, taking a lot of negative hits while protecting other aspects of our sport from low blows. Targeted because Racing’s anti’s know the whip is something they have a fair chance of banning, whilst the flimsy whip’s irradication – on what will be seen as welfare grounds – means there can be NO possible justification in keeping hard, hurting, injuring, killing obstacles found in National Hunt Racing.

    The banning of the former will inevitably result in the latter’s demise.

    value is everything
    #1448841
    cormack15
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8760

    “The banning of the former will inevitably result in the latter’s demise.”

    Presented as a factual statement but, for clarity, this is no more than an opinion GT.

    #1448844
    cormack15
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 8760

    “The banning of the former will inevitably result in the latter’s demise.”

    Presented as a factual statement but, for clarity, this is no more than an opinion GT.

    #1448853
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5666

    The whip is a protective barrier that surrounds Racing, taking a lot of negative hits while protecting other aspects of our sport from low blows

    Mark, that’s a bit like arguing that the organisers of The Great Escape should have sent a dozen people out every day in broad daylight to try to scale the fence. Had they done that, do you think it would have been more or less likely that the guards would have sussed that something else might be going on somewhere?

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

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