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Really looking forward to that maiden today with Bangkok & Prince Eiji. Think it’ll be one to follow for next season.
I’ve had a small e/w on PE as both the Izzi top beasts won on debut and he was a decent e/w price around 7s.
Bangkok was only 5th today, he simply looked a bit short of pace. They could not give Murray River away and he was desperately green after being slowly away. Money came for the expensive colt Prince Eiji and he looked much more clued up at the business end before picking up well and holding on to win by half a length.
Bangkok fans will have been disappointed by that effort and by the same token people who are with the Stoute colt who beat him last time will probably be on the oxygen mask for a while today.
Red Armada gave it a good go for Clive Cox in second but his proximity doesn’t give the form a great look. Red Armada was beaten six lengths in 4th on debut and had a lowly 68 RPR coming in today. To rate Prince Eiji on a decent mark for today it will be necessary to give Red Armada quite a raise.
Sparkle Roll never got involved on the soft in her race, which went to a rank outsider at 100/1. The uneasy favourite was green, flashed her tail and had an awful looking action akin to a rocking horse, I felt her style may actually suit the ground conditions but she seemed very awkward to me and she needs a bit of time to sort herself out for me.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Excellent thread, Darren and Steve, but why the hell is it tucked away here?
Surely it should be on the Main Racing Forum it is as much about racing as the on-going Frankel tribute.
Not having a go at the Frankel thread but I don’t see why the two threads should be on different forums.
Colin
Seabird, there is so little comment on the main thread anyway, certainly very little that ever helped anyone find a winner.
I suppose if enough people are interested they could find this thread but the search facility on the site is awful. I guess 2YO betting is not everyones cup of tea and this forum is much more of a jumps forum anyway.
Hey ho, this will be my last season anyway, I should have some cats in the back garden in a foster pen by Arc time.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Horse racing forums seem to be dying out, Steve, not just this one.
The other that I frequent seems to have very little interest in 2-y-o racing or flat racing altogether for that matter. When you get a 2019 Cheltenham Gold Cup thread starting up in August 2018 it is rather depressing.
Sorry to hear that you intend giving up the forum but it is understandable.
Good luck with the cat fostering both of my daughters are involved in that.
Colin
We’re not dying boys – far from it.
Year end Aug 2018 our visitor numbers are up 20% on the year before and the year before that (’16 to ’17) saw an increase of 16%. Number of ‘reads’ is up 15% to year on year to Aug 2018 (from ’17) and was up 18% the year before that. Quantity doesn’t always equal quality but I think in general we don’t do badly on the latter score and I am always indebted to the posters who make TRF what it is and to the mods who help keep us all on the straight and narrow.
I know some threads can seem to sit across two forums but we try to keep ‘Horse Racing’ to more general discussion topics. We do need to have some categorisation or the whole thing becomes a jumble and it’d be even more difficult (taking SC’s point about the search function) to find anything. However, we are looking at a little bit of streamlining on the threads/forums side of it. Suggestions welcome (with a view to simplifying rather than adding further complexity).
Doesnt answer the point as to why a frankel appreciation page is more welcome there than a sea the stars one or 2yos to look forward to.
of the % that read this forum surely most of it is about race reading and not discussions about which itv presenter annoys you the most, this is as much a horse racing thread than a “what matt chapman said this time” every saturdayIf this thread was in another section, itd surely have more input, that alone is cause for action, no? The same could be said about the frankel page, if that was here itd likely have less input
Hi Ham –
A Sea The Stars appreciation page would be just as welcome as a Frankel one – did we move on of those?
I hear what you are saying but unless we have some for of categorisation and everything in one or two sub-forums it’d be very messy. This way people can find what they want very easily.
It’s not perfect, I appreciate that, and open to suggestions for improvement in how we categorise/manage topics.
David
In relation to where this thread is Ham/Admin, surely, people who are active on the forum will delve further than just the first sub-forum!? If not they’re just lazy
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!Correct Jack, I don’t quite see any issue here either, it’s not as if it’s difficult to find.
It shouldn’t take away from Darren either, as it’s a very decent thread, which has recovered well from the earlier unwelcome interruptions.
Decent looking clash on the cards tomorrow at Chantilly.
Persian King is set to go head to head with Freddy Head’s Lone Peak who made a stunning debut at Deauville last month when coming home seven lengths clear of his field.
Impossible to say what Lone Peak beat that day as nothing has run since from those who trailed him home that day. I did a write up about him but it was switched to this sub category seperately.
Anyway, the story is that Persian King was Fabre’s best 2YO despite his 84 RPR, while Lone Peak got a more generous 90 for his career opener. With 6l and 7l winners from last time clashing now, it should serve as a watershed race in terms of talent.
Ze Turf go for Lone Peak in their preview but I trust Fabre more of the two trainers and am hoping Persian King can prove the Racing Post wrong in the assessment that the son of Kingman only improved 2 lbs from his first run to the second.
King to rule for me at Chantilly.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Steve,
Why would Persian King running to an RPR of any figure prove the RPR wrong previously?
They can only rate the race on the info they have at the time, and that’s it. You might have the opinion that one horse will be the next star, but they have to work on figures. They might even think, wow he’s going to be a machine, but they can’t just give him a massive rating on their personal opinion.
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!Jack, it’s a matter of common sense as much as anything. The Racing Post have their followers but they also have plenty of detractors. Some have called their ratings “Laughable”
When I see a horse I think is overrated or underrated on any ratings scale, I will point it out in order to advise anyone interested. It is only my opinion and this is a forum for opinions.
I get the impression you have an axe to grind with me and it’s frankly getting tedious having my opinion challenged on such a regular basis. I have tried to be polite and answer any queries but it’s becoming tiresome. For instance, I would much rather hear your opinion on tomorrow’s race and create some relevant dialogue, rather than get a lecture.
It is MY opinion that the notion of Persian King improving by only 2 lbs from run 1 to run 2 is ridiculous. He won easily by six lengths and if the Racing Post is going to stick strictly to the figures and rate Persian King as if he was all out to win and had nothing left to give then they will be reduced to giving totally inaccurate readings of a horse’s abilty.
Some people reading ratings will know that a horse is capable of more but there are less experienced people who don’t know how to apply context and they may take the figures as gospel. All I am doing is passing an opinion that might assist some people.
I don’t see anyone else really getting the grilling I get about my opinions and I do not go about grilling others about their input on the forum.
Never mind, I should be out of here after the Arc and people can feel free to do as they wish without my tuppenceworth, if it’s even worth that, in the way.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
No axe to grind Steve at all. Your a regular poster and I ask questions as well as post my views- that’s what a forums all about, discussion.
I don’t have any problem with your opinion that Persian King is better than the Rpr given for his last run, it’s just the fact that they are there to rate a performance in one race, not the future ability. Everyone and their dog knows PK is better than that RPR most likely, but if handicappers run around saying “he’s a machine” let’s at 6pds for the fun of it then their ratings would become void and lack accuracy.
I am not grilling you in the slightest, if me asking a question and stating what an RPR is is a grilling then the worlds gone mad.
I have said previously I will be sorry to see you go, a regular and important poster to the site
Twitter: Jackh1092
Hindsight is 20/20 so make the most of it!Virtually everyone on this thread has said the same thing kris,jack, and i dont think you can disagree about where its positioned, yes easy to find, but out of the way though and that in turn makes it less “popular” how many people post on this part of the forum is what confirms that…. its not the end of the world either way, i dont think myself, steve or anyone else will be upset if it remains here lol
Just suggestions for more content for us lazy folk
Jack, From my point of view the issue is more that I have usually already addressed and explained my thinking on the RPRs for certain horses somewhere else on the site and it gets wearisome having to repeat myself.
The other thing is that when I do put my case it generally makes no difference to the way you view a topic we are discussing and that makes it feel pointless from my side to put any time to it.
To explain my thinking on ratings a bit further, I generally take the view that a good 2YO will run somewhere between 85 and 90 on its first start. I will allow a few pounds under that and for Aidan O’Brien Galileo offspring you have to allow for a modest first time effort.
On s horse’s second start I feel a horse with the appropriate physical look can reach roughly 100 if it is training forward properly. On a horse’s third start, I feel a horse I view as having the right scope can improve again betweem 10 and 15 lbs.
After three runs I take the view that a 2YO has to begin improving in smaller amounts and, depending on the horse in question, I expect their limit to be 5 lbs and maybe as much as 7 lbs on occasion.
I would generally see the ceiling for the rating of any 2YO as 120,with perhaps a smidgin more on relatively rare occasions.
Coming into the 3YO season the higher a horse’s rating was at 2YO, the less scope it actually has for further improvement. This is down to the natural limitation on how good any horse can actually become. To be a top notcher at 3 a 120 rated 2YO needs to find another 7-10 lbs at 3YO, or later improving types can overtake them.
For an example, Saxon Warrior has been discussed as losing form because of the trips he’s been trying but it could just be that he’s remained static, as his rating for winning th Racing Post Trophy was 119 and his official rating now is 120 and that is five runs on from Doncaster last October and more than 10months later.
Anyhow that’s what I am basing my own rating for Persian King on and I feel the Racing Post have given him little or no credit for winning as far as he did, as easily as he did. It is my opinion that relying too much on the stopwatch in French racing in particular, and not allowing for having more to give will lead to being way off some of the time.
It used to be that jockeys would ease a horse to try to win by a smaller margin and preserve a better handicap mark but the official handicapper will take the ease of victory into consideration when allotting a new figure nowadays.
Hope that explains where I work from, for meithas proved better than taking bare figures with no context.
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
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